So called rights of way apps

Hanechdene

Well-Known Member
Hello,

Not sure if this is the right section.

We are being swamped by people not sticking to the footpaths that run through our land. It turns out that they are downloading routes from an app caller Alltrails.

I have contacted the apps’ administration a couple of times asking for the routes to be removed which of course does not happen.

Does anyone know if there is anyway of forcing Alltrails to remove these routes?

Many thanks for any assistance?
 
Hello,

Not sure if this is the right section.

We are being swamped by people not sticking the footpaths that run through our land. It turns out that they are downloading routes from an app caller Alltrails.

I have contacted the apps’ administration a couple of times asking for the routes to be removed which of course does not happen.

Does anyone know if there is anyway of forcing Alltrails to remove these routes?

Many thanks for any assistance?
Not sure at the moment as trespass is still a civil matter and I don’t think you can blame a third party.
I suppose if there was some legal precedent you could try solicitors letter.
It might change soon, although I haven’t seen the details. But the law on trespass is changing and it will be covered by criminal law.
I understand your frustration having grown up in the YDNP with people (prior to apps etc) thinking National Park meant go where you like. We later farmed where there were no footpaths, and had people walking through miles from any footpath.
 
Send them a letter, recorded delivery, politely asking them to correct their maps. Enclose an OS map,1:25K, marked up with the false routes that you would like them to delete.

Further explain that, should trespassers cause any damage to your property (or, more expensively, be killed or injured themselves) as a result of being misdirected by Alltrails, then you will implicate that company, as a contributor to that harm, in any subsequent litigation.

Between us, whether you would follow up (or win in court with) such a threat is irrelevant. You just want to create a sufficient sense of jeopardy so that doing nought feels like their worst option.
 
Hi Sonic and Carl,

Many thanks for the reply.

Problem is Alltrails is in America.

I expect there are routes all of the country being posted on this app that have no legal standing, would be interesting to know if anyone else is affected.
 
Hi Sonic and Carl,

Many thanks for the reply.

Problem is Alltrails is in America.

I expect there are routes all of the country being posted on this app that have no legal standing, would be interesting to know if anyone else is affected.
It doesn't matter that they are in the US. It would be procedurally more complicated were you actually to litigate against them (which you won't, unless you are rich or mental), and securing enforcement, in particular, would be a headache; however, that's not the point. You just need to get their attention. US companies are even more 'litigation-sensitive' than their UK counterparts and the sensible ones generally prefer to settle things amicably.

PS I can't say it enough: be polite.
 
A quick look and this is another one of those 'user contributed' trail apps, another is Komoot, any muppet who walks your land can have it nicely logged and then shared.
You also name the specific trail as they will neither know they are hosting it or if it's legal access.

This is one of my local ones, you need to find the ones that infringe Box Hill, Lodge Hill and Juniper Hill Circular
 
A quick look and this is another one of those 'user contributed' trail apps, another is Komoot, any muppet who walks your land can have it nicely logged and then shared.
You also name the specific trail as they will neither know they are hosting it or if it's legal access.

This is one of my local ones, you need to find the ones that infringe Box Hill, Lodge Hill and Juniper Hill Circular
If the trails are user-uploaded then we have more of a problem. As soon as Alltrails take them down, the users will just reinstate them, and you can't expect an app-developer to police it effectively and to research rights-of-way law across the whole globe.

Looks like you need some signs and a grumpy fellow with a dog...
 
Hi Sonic and Carl,

Many thanks for the reply.

Problem is Alltrails is in America.

I expect there are routes all of the country being posted on this app that have no legal standing, would be interesting to know if anyone else is affected.
Google is also in America but with persistence I know a man who had his house blanked out of street view. He threatened to take them to court. It worked. This is what his house looks like now.
 

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Are they actually rights of way, or are they public footpaths which would appear on the definitive map maintained by the county council?
 
Of course any app/computer programme is only as good as the person inputting the information and the information supplied by subscribers/users..... Think how we are up here, the right of responsible access to the land is taken as a right to wander willy-nilly over any ground - including through the front gardens of some peoples houses! I have no problem with most areas of reasonable access, when used responsibly, but sadly the ability to be "responsible" seems to be an increasingly distant notion....
 
Not sure at the moment as trespass is still a civil matter and I don’t think you can blame a third party.
I suppose if there was some legal precedent you could try solicitors letter.
It might change soon, although I haven’t seen the details. But the law on trespass is changing and it will be covered by criminal law.
I understand your frustration having grown up in the YDNP with people (prior to apps etc) thinking National Park meant go where you like. We later farmed where there were no footpaths, and had people walking through miles from any footpath.
I would be interested to know what the laws are changing, about bloody time it became a criminal matter, having the police to follow up, or even show any interest is another matter.
 
Are they actually rights of way, or are they public footpaths which would appear on the definitive map maintained by the county council?

The tracks that are being followed are not rights of way or public footpaths, that is the issue.
 
I would be interested to know what the laws are changing, about bloody time it became a criminal matter, having the police to follow up, or even show any interest is another matter.
There’s a link in another thread. Priti Patel made an announcement in the Commons. I am not sure of the details but making trespass a criminal offence is part of it
 
I carelessly followed a walk from the OS app (OS Maps: online mapping and walking, running and cycling routes) a couple of weeks ago and ended up on a private estate, no right of way, because I didn't check the route. The walks on that app are also submitted by users. Anyway, I decided to keep going and apologise if challenged because it would have been a long detour around the estate (Hampton - Hampton Estate | Traditional agricultural estate located within the Surrey Hills Area). I walked politely, discretely and with dog on lead. I don't see much of a problem with that. To be honest, I don't see much of a problem with walking over any large expanses of private land. If you've got hundreds or thousands of acres then you should probably expect the odd person wandering around (and don't tell me it's like people walking through my back garden! It's just not.)

But the long and short of it is that trespass is not a criminal offence so there's not a lot you can do. Best to learn to live with it.

U.
 
Here is a resource for discovering the rights of way that are definitive, supplied by 117 local authorities who have provided their data. A very useful resource for planning a walk, cycle or horse ride. I commend it.


This, so far, covers:

Barnsley, Bath and North East Somerset, Bedford, Bexley, Birmingham, Blackburn with Darwen, Blackpool, Blaenau Gwent, Bolton, Bournemouth, Bracknell Forest, Bradford, Brecon Beacons National Park, Brighton and Hove (City of), Bristol (City of), Bromley, Buckinghamshire, Bury, Calderdale, Cambridgeshire, Cardiff, Carmarthenshire, Central Bedfordshire, Ceredigion, Cheshire East, Cheshire West and Chester, Cornwall, Cumbria, Denbighshire, Derbyshire, Devon, Doncaster, Dorset, Dudley, Durham, East Riding of Yorkshire, East Sussex, Essex, Flintshire, Gateshead, Gloucestershire, Gwynedd, Hampshire, Herefordshire, Hertfordshire, Hull (City of Kingston upon), Isle of Anglesey, Isle of Wight, Kent, Kirklees, Knowsley, Lake District National Park, Lancashire, Leeds, Leicester (City of), Leicestershire, Lincolnshire, Manchester, Medway, Merthyr Tydfil, Norfolk, North Lincolnshire, North Somerset, North Yorkshire, Northamptonshire, Northumberland, Nottingham (City of), Nottinghamshire, Oldham, Oxfordshire, Pembrokeshire, Peterborough (City of), Plymouth (City of), Poole, Portsmouth (City of), Powys, Reading, Redcar and Cleveland, Rhondda Cynon Taff, Rochdale, Rotherham, Rutland, Salford, Sefton, Sheffield, Shropshire, Slough, Somerset, South Gloucestershire, Southampton (City of), St Helens, Staffordshire, Stockport, Stockton on Tees, Suffolk, Surrey, Swansea, Tameside, Thurrock, Torbay, Torfaen, Trafford, Vale of Glamorgan, Wakefield, Walsall, Warrington, Warwickshire, West Berkshire, West Sussex, Wigan, Wiltshire, Windsor and Maidenhead, Wirral, Wokingham, Worcestershire, Wrexham and York

Here is the project for rediscovering old rights of way and getting them added back onto the definitive maps. Hurry, because the cut-off date is 2026:


Here is the project run by the National Library for Scotland. It is also a fascinating way to view the OS mapping of Scotland, from 1900, at six inches to the mile. Those old-time OS surveyors did a tremendous job, as they still do nowadays, though I suspect that there is less footwork involved now:


Interested in how they did it, well take an interest in trig points. Maybe even take a can of white paint to smarten one up if neglected.


Here you may get an indication of where CROW access land is ("Right to Roam"). Insufficiently detailed to rely upon.


See also Rights of way and accessing land

There are, of course, landowners who resort to trying to block legal paths on their land, or simply let them fall into disrepair. If discovered, you can report them to the relevant planning authority. For example I have done this, twice, in the Yorkshire Dales, and found them very helpful.


As there are landowners who behave responsibly by maintaining their stiles gates and bridges, applying for diversions, or by putting in more appropriate permissive paths instead.

So there are remedies for landowners who are unhappy about how the public may not be behaving correctly. As there are for the public who may find that a landowner is not behaving correctly.

Our public rights of way are a treasure.
 
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