Spinoli

[williamwansbeck]

Slow and steady ,cracking retrievers,had one would have another(but silly money ) see avatar'

 

[countrryboy]

^^^^^^^^^
This, they’re slow and tend to potter about with their noses on the ground, as does the Bracco.
If that’s what you want, knock yourself out, but as HPR’s they bore the pants off me.

I was going to post similar.
Dunno if its a med/ south european thing with both the bracco and spinone tending to both be quite slow plodding dogs, wether for the heat or just the laid back style of the hunters themselves?
As jimmy said earlier might suit stalking slightly better than a quick hard heided german breed

I'm sure either the bracco or spinone societies used to run a spring counting test up near lauder, infact might be around this time of year.

 

[Lancaster]

I've been unlucky enough to have been on shoots with members with a number of these damned things.
They are as thick as pig muck, plod away completely oblivious to recall whistle, wander through drives, eventually remembering that they should be with their owners, then plod back flushing everything back over the beating line.
Retrieving... Well the ones that I have spent years cursing at go and pick up a bird (normally whilst their owner is in the beating line), then get bored of the one that they are carrying, spit it out and go to pick up another one, only to repeat the process.
Sorry, but my experience has been very negative and I have only ever seen one of the bloody useless things that I would give kennel room to.

 

[Lancaster]

Typical dog breed thread that will receive a wide variety of answers based on minimal experience (including my own) - far better to talk to a number of breeders who have owned a number of examples of the breed over a number of years.

The one that lives in our village is a huge male, plenty of poke, has been known to chase a few deer over the horizon.

Unfortunately, my experience of breeders of these donkeys is that they wear rose coloured specs and their beloved Spinones can do no wrong, chasing a deer over the horizon whist their owner is trying to get it to come back isn't a great trait IMHO.

 

[Dunwaters]

Unfortunately, my experience of breeders of these donkeys is that they wear rose coloured specs and their beloved Spinones can do no wrong, chasing a deer over the horizon whist their owner is trying to get it to come back isn't a great trait IMHO.

Kennel blindness would be the kindest term, if you want a halfway decent HPR, have a look at the Championship results over the last 25 years and pick one of the successful breeds.
I’m not saying that you can’t find a dog that will perform, but the odds are about the same as picking a horse out of the next group through the local knackers yard and expecting it to do well in the Grand National.
Your chances aren’t absolutely zero, but they’re not great, in a field where the odds are already stacked against you.
Theres are solid reasons that these breeds aren’t as popular as their German cousins.
Strange really, the Italians make some really nice stylish cars but shite tractors, 4x4’s and HPR’s, the Germans make cars styled like jelly moulds but some really good tractors, trucks, 4x4’s and HPR’s.

 

[Lancaster]

One breed that is seriously overlooked is the Visla, I have seen a few of these over the years and haven't encountered a bad one.
One particular example was outstanding, I reckon we could have easily halved the number in the beating line and let the owner and his bitch go through the drive and still got the same number of birds over the guns, slow and steady, no big flushes, just a steady trickle of birds.

 

[countrryboy]

I've been unlucky enough to have been on shoots with members with a number of these damned things.
They are as thick as pig muck, plod away completely oblivious to recall whistle, wander through drives, eventually remembering that they should be with their owners, then plod back flushing everything back over the beating line.
Retrieving... Well the ones that I have spent years cursing at go and pick up a bird (normally whilst their owner is in the beating line), then get bored of the one that they are carrying, spit it out and go to pick up another one, only to repeat the process.
Sorry, but my experience has been very negative and I have only ever seen one of the bloody useless things that I would give kennel room to.

Thats the problem with unusual dogs wether colour or breed, any mistake they make is remembered forever, yet it might have been briliant the rest of the day, and the numerous ABL's have been doing the same or worse all day but no one bats an eye.
Thats the beauty of owning an ABL ( annonomous black lab) u can always plead its not ur dog ( even if it is)

I've seen plenty of labs, spaniels and almost any breed do the same.
Absolutely nothing to do with the breed and 100% down to the owners.

I've never met the owners ur talking about, but i bet u could give them a 100% rock steady fully trained lab or spaniel and it would be completely ruined inside 1 season, and a lot quickier if they still 1 of there own 'trained' dogs to help its further training
Seen it numerous times, even when spending big money on this fully trained dog, resorts back to there old usual standard.
1 lady i know who occasionally trains dogs for toffs, 1 lab went away pretty tidy, 4 months later unrecognisable, 1 months training back to tidy, by the 4th time back it just knew to behave with her and not for owners ( who let it run in there unfenced garden all day which is in the middle of a game shoot, and they wonder why it won't listen )

Lessons with a decent pro trainer or gundog club are more about training/educating the handler than the dog

 

[countrryboy]

Kennel blindness would be the kindest term, if you want a halfway decent HPR, have a look at the Championship results over the last 25 years and pick one of the successful breeds.

I totally agree with kennel blindness ( wether just the dogs u actually own or the breed u run) and i find the more minority breeds the more the blinkers are on, more so than the more mainstream breeds.
I've seen a lot of truely terrible Hprs over the years yet owners just cant see the faults, but seen plenty terrible labs and spaniels too that are breed from when have serious faults.

The 1 other thing i'll say, yes if u want to try to improve the odds of getting a decent working pup looking at FT results is a good way to go.
But i now hink most FT's are far to specialised and the dogs are probably just a bit much for many normal working handlers.

And while hpr FT's probably represent a walked shot over day more than the other FT forms, most folk use hpr's in a completely different fashion now, to be quite honest buying strong FT lines in a beating line or deer hpr might not be the best idea.
Now i think ur better to try and find a good example of the breed u want doing wot u want the dog to do, well

 

[Lancaster]

Thats the problem with unusual dogs wether colour or breed, any mistake they make is remembered forever, yet it might have been briliant the rest of the day, and the numerous ABL's have been doing the same or worse all day but no one bats an eye.
Thats the beauty of owning an ABL ( annonomous black lab) u can always plead its not ur dog ( even if it is)

I've seen plenty of labs, spaniels and almost any breed do the same.
Absolutely nothing to do with the breed and 100% down to the owners.

I've never met the owners ur talking about, but i bet u could give them a 100% rock steady fully trained lab or spaniel and it would be completely ruined inside 1 season, and a lot quickier if they still 1 of there own 'trained' dogs to help its further training
Seen it numerous times, even when spending big money on this fully trained dog, resorts back to there old usual standard.
1 lady i know who occasionally trains dogs for toffs, 1 lab went away pretty tidy, 4 months later unrecognisable, 1 months training back to tidy, by the 4th time back it just knew to behave with her and not for owners ( who let it run in there unfenced garden all day which is in the middle of a game shoot, and they wonder why it won't listen )

Lessons with a decent pro trainer or gundog club are more about training/educating the handler than the dog

You may be right, but when you have watched a donkey rip a bird from the mouth of your own dog that has picked it from behind the line, run away with it then spit it out, you do tend to remember,.
Same as when a dog runs up to your peg, picks up a bird that have already been retrieved then disappears back into the wood and the owner, who is part of the beating line, proudly announces that his dog has retrieved a pricked runner.....

I completely agree with the section that I have underlined, it isn't the dogs fault it is about lazy owners who haven't got a clue about training dogs...

 

[countrryboy]

I rehomed a working bred spaniel, 3 related dogs ( same parent previous litter) go to a couple of shoots i go to 1 diy syndicate and the bigger commercial shoot i pick up on, all 3 do exactly the same as u mention, 1 does it every bloody drive on the diy shoot, 1st shot tears throu the beating line and runs about the pegs until a bird is dropped yet when gets back into the beating line often no bird in its mouth, the only good thing (which is really a fualt in itself) is its not that hard a hunter as it usually doesn't empty the flushing point.
IDon't get my wrong mine isn't the best spaniel in the world but works away fine and has none of the above faults, so not even in the lines breeding 100% handler error

While u'd still remember it happening if it was a lab or spaniel it would just be 'so and so's' wild dug, not all labs or spaniels.

Sad to say but most diy syndicates have atleast 1 dog like that and often far more, urs just happens to be a fancy breed, heard man folk say similar about chocolate labs after seeing 1 poor 1

 

[Keith Edmunds]

Unfortunately, my experience of breeders of these donkeys is that they wear rose coloured specs and their beloved Spinones can do no wrong, chasing a deer over the horizon whist their owner is trying to get it to come back isn't a great trait IMHO.

The one on the village isn't owned by a breeder. My point of saying 'ask a number of breeders' is to get a realistic viewpoint - and I don't just mean breeders in the UK.......I would be asking researching breeders across the globe to see what differences there are between certain lines.

Chasing a deer over the horizon was not meant to be a 'plus point', just that that individual dog is certainly not a plodding type, it is switched on, very alert and has plenty of drive.

 

[GeorgeC]

I have seen both Braccos and Spinone used as HPR dogs in the field for a variety of purposes. I would never call Braccos lazy. The key here is that the dog is trained well, else like many other hard nosed / brain dogs they will do what they want. Stubborn is a better description, along the line of GWPs.

I like both breeds and Spinone are good for scent work, but they have to be kept doing this on a frequent basis.