stalking US vs Great Britian?

[captdavid]

First off I don't want to offend anyone. What are people who live in Wales, England or Scotland called as a people, British or what? I am interested if anyone has tried stalking our whitetail deer? how does it compare to stalking roe. I will admit that I have almost no experience spot and stalking deer. I occasionally 'still hunt'. This involves taking several hours stopping every 100 yards, or so,

stopping and observing​

for 15-20 minuets, and continuing on. I have seen a few undisturbed deer, but never got a shot. I mainly see the south end of north bound spooked deer. the only one I killed was obviously spooked by another hunter. spotting and stalking has been even less successful.all of the places I hunt are hunted areas. these deer see people as danger.

I also hunt the less populated parts of Texas where there is very little crop agriculture, so there is no hunting the edges of grain fields.​

Most of the hunting done in Texas is out of deer stands over feeders. or winter oat patches. Maybe that's just easier and we haven't developed our stalking skills. Being a history teacher and somewhat familiar in the feudal system, I am somewhat familiar in land ownership and usage. It is my understanding that 'traditional' paths are open and used no matter who owns the land. have I got this right? Also it seems to me that most roe deer live in close proximity to humans. There are also many small grain fields crisscrossed with hedge rows, that I perceive would make stalking easier. I wonder if that is why stalking is more successful in Britain than it is here. Do any of you have experience hunting both countries, especially stalking whitetails. I also hunt where Red deer, sika and fallow deer are wild and hunted. They are big $ trophies and not shot at on sight as whitetails are, but, the hinds anyway, can be spot and shot. this usually seeing one from a vehicle, being dropped off near, but not in sight and easing up, under cover and taking a shot. your thoughts? captdavid

 

[mchughcb]

Im pulling up a chair.

 

[Tom D]

A lot of people over here shoot from ‘blinds’ or seats but I suspect a lot of us stalk in to our deer. I know I do. I wouldn’t say roe are tame / used to people, although some of the ones around towns are fairly tame by comparison with the rural ones. Roe are easier to stalk than red or sika as they tend to be loners or hang in small family groups as opposed to a herd where there are a lot of eyes watching for danger. I know nothing about white tails so can’t comment..

We we are all British by the way.

 

[enfieldspares]

What are people who live in Wales, England or Scotland called as a people, British or what?

We are all British as we live in what is known as the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) so a person will have a British passport but may call themselves English, Welsh, Scottish or, indeed, Irish. But "British" is OK.

Here in Britain there's mostly three types of stalking.

Traditional Scottish hill stalking which is the thing you'll see on You Tube done in what is called a deer forest but is really a moorland.

Then the two other sorts you'll know well in the USA. Woodland stalking that is blundering about in bushes and woods trying to creep up into shooting range of a deer So that's you cal still hunting or what the French call "a l'approche".

The other is highseat shooting. Which in the USA you'd call hunting from a blind or a stand. That blind can be inside a wood, on the edge of a wood or, even, overlooking a field where deer come. So that'd be like your USA beanfield shooting.

Nobody here shoots driven deer as they do on the continent.

The two huge big difference an American would notice is that in the UK we are legally allowed to hunt with rifles fitted with sound moderators. So a lot of people do (I don't) and in fact some places make it almost a mandatory requirement that the paying guest use a rifle fitted with such. The second is that nobody (pretty much) uses any sort of Winchester 94 or Marlin 36 or Savage 99 or similar lever action rifle in any calibre. So you'll find no gunshop with any .30-30 ammunition if you bring one here to hunt with!

 

[Freeforester]

Stalking on foot is more of an art than a science, it can be learned, but some will be more naturally adept than others. Most of the US hunting videos I see seem to be accompanied by a screaming guitar rock band lurking in the background somewhere nearby, whereas here we make do with the small birds singing, and/or the occasional pheasant cock or cuckoo, lol!

Adopting (not adapting) the native indians' methods of stalking does no harm; roe deer are by and large adaptable and can live in proximity to people, but are equally if not more so at home away from human influence. Their ways and behaviour is broadly similar to whitetail in my (limited) experience.

Oh, and I think 15-20 minuets might be a bit 'trying' for both the wildlife and the hunter, but if you must, try this one, rather than the Ted Nugent band!

 

[mchughcb]

From a reference i had. Hunting of whitetail deer prior to the 1970s was with hounds. Stalking was considered extremely difficult and unsuccessful. It was the adoption of steel treestands that revolutionized whitetail hunting and improved the success. When hunting in a thick woodland or forest it is almost impossible to stalk deer. The deer can hear an approach more than 80m and and if your visibility is less than 40m in a hunted area you will have a very low chance of success. Legend stalkers in Australia that hunt sambar in the forest will almost always have a pointer dog indicating a deer several hundred metres in front. They will then reduce their stalking down to a few steps then watch with binoculars until they see the deer their dog is indicating then take an offhand shot from 50 to 150m. Other gurus drive around the farm fringe shooting sambar on improved pasture. Ive spent time in texas and Arizona. You are wasting your time trying to stalk them, getting tgem to come to you is a better strategy in my opinion.

 

[mchughcb]

Here's a great example of why it revolutionized it. Most people who call this lazy have never had to carry all their stuff in. Climb a tree and install it. Had the patience of Job to sit for hours then skill not to make a noise when drawing the bow.

 

[Marcher]

Hi Captdavid,
I have been a Roe Stalker in the UK for 50 years, and am still learning. There is a similarity between White tails and Roe in that they usually live in specific areas in small family groups. The mixed cover they live in is similar too. What we call "Stalking" is very slow. Spying before and after each step, using the wind all the time, you can get really close to roe, giving you time to identify sex, age and suitability for culling. The American Indian must have done this for thousands of years to get within bow range. I have stalked White tails in Texas in Erath County many a time, using my normal slow method, and been successful. This was mixed scrub and pasture on very flat land.
This is an interesting thread, and I hope it continues.
Marcher.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

The season is longer here in the UK and you also know that you will be the only hunter in the area due to land ownership and stalking rights here, no public hunting land. I have had hunters in the States pull up and park right next to my pickup and begin to hunt when I could see them from where I was hunkered down which obviously spoilt it for both of us as the deer were 100% gone by then.
Point being is, there is not the real need here to buy every new gadget from scent control underwear / food supplement sacks up to ghillie suits to try to ensure success in the short season.

 

[Richiepolecat]

Roe are closely related to Whitetails from what I have read, obvs Whitetails are a lot larger!

 

[Tim.243]

Roe are closely related to Whitetails from what I have read, obvs Whitetails are a lot larger!

Is that the works PC Rich? lol Guess you are on the mend?

Tim.243

 

[nun_hunter]

In the UK (for every intent and purpose) every piece of land is pri ately owned when it comes to firearms and as such you need permission from the owner to hunt. There is no real public land such as the USA, Canada etc. This means that most places to hunt are relatively small, a few hundred acres for most recreational stalkers. We don't have thousands of acre we can wander off into and camp for a few days while hunting but then most places are exclusive permissions so you are likely the only person hunting there. Other than private permissions you can go out with a guide similàr to what you would in the USA on a private ranch.

From what I can gather our deer density is much higher here than the USA so it's not uncommon for even recreational hunters to shoot many deer a month rather than one or two a year. In the UK most deer are shot and sold to a game dealer to be processed, a lot of hunters (myself included) are more similar to those in the USA where we only shoot what we can eat or share amongst friends as I don't believe you can sell game meat in the USA.

 

[mchughcb]

The season is longer here in the UK and you also know that you will be the only hunter in the area due to land ownership and stalking rights here, no public hunting land. I have had hunters in the States pull up and park right next to my pickup and begin to hunt when I could see them from where I was hunkered down which obviously spoilt it for both of us as the deer were 100% gone by then.
Point being is, there is not the real need here to buy every new gadget from scent control underwear / food supplement sacks up to ghillie suits to try to ensure success in the short season.

Who hunts in ghillie suits? Serious question.

 

[devon deer stalker]

I have hunted Whitetail in Montana on several occasions, and will be returning again this year.
They are in my opinion very similar beasts to stalk as Roe, very often appearing at first/last light (although weather and time of year dictates differing behaviour) in Devon (SW England) I see them out in the fields, adjacent to woodland, or deep inside the woods.
I have used my stalking experience that I employ on Roe to great effect on WT, they appear in Montana to favour your Aspens and low level area's, I have spotted them then stalked in, I have only bumped into one rather than stalked in, and that was because another hunter on your public land pushed him in my direction!
What I have noticed are WT on open harvested fields at all times of they day, which can be frustrating as the fields are often 'posted no hunting' the deer appear to be able to read in the US!

I know some states in the US allow sound moderators, but I personally don't like them, and don't use them in the UK.

I hate waiting in high seats!

A few years ago one of your TV hunting 'celebrities' came over to hunt with me (I was doing a lot of guiding then) as he wanted the challenge to hunt a Roe Buck, as he likened them to his favourite deer, Whitetail, his TV show was called North American Whitetail deer, and his name was James Kroll (Dr Deer) and is an expert on WT, he did very well (considering we were also dragging a cameraman around with us!) and shot 2 Roe Bucks.

I believe you have very little public land in Texas?

Cheers

Richard

 

[Woodsmoke]

I've hunted whitetail in Georgia (Nashville, to be exact) In my experience it was high seat hunting at dawn and dusk, apart from a memorable evening in the swamp during which I shot three raccoon with two shots (apparently there are still ballads sung about the time 'that funny-talking fella' performed this feat ) Kidding aside though, I can attest that whitetail are damnably hard to stalk in to, as we bumped deer after deer without even seeing them! Most of the deer I shot were on or close to feed plots, or on the edges of fields. I can also attest to the fact that armadillo make noises FAR out of proportion to their size, and can get the heart racing as you wait for the monster buck to finally appear out of the brush. Roe, on the other hand, can be ridiculously easy to stalk in to on occasion, if the wind is right and you have your wits about you. They can spook just as easily as any other deer though, and I've bumped more deer than I care to think about. A lot of roe are shot from high seats though, although possibly just as many are stalked on woodland margins or even in open fields. They can also be called in at certain times of year, and the picture below shows just how close they'll come in if they don't see you

 

[mchughcb]

This video shows the sort of country in Texas that has plenty of deer, but not easy to stalk.

 

[Richiepolecat]

Is that the works PC Rich? lol Guess you are on the mend?

Tim.243

Yeah of course, wouldn't waste my own time on a computer...

 

[reloader54]

a little tip,, I discovered most deer love roses, especially the new tender shoots,much to the disdain of the "land crabs" [local term here for gardeners employed by my boss] so naturally I have a deer blind right next to a large wild rose patch.

 

[badbob]

Yes whe are four separate nations, English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish,
united as British under a United Kingdom. (except Southern Ireland which"ceded" some time ago)

Yes Highways, Bridleways and footpaths are free to walk even across private land.
there is also freedom of access (but not for hunting) over many open spaces, forestry commission,mountains, coast, especially so in Scotland.
English countryside varies from fields hedgrows, small woods, open hills moorland.
some areas are quite densly populated.
The highlands of Scotland are particularly remote and provide good open ground stalking.

The secret is of course to spot the deer before they spot ( or hear or smell ) you.


Then you are in with a chance. success rates are high

The biggest difference is that there are relatively few hunters in the UK and no bow hunting.
Firearms Licences are difficult to obtain you need to be sober, law abiding and show good reason.
Having said that there is plenty of opportunity to hunt but you need the land owners permission which may be free,
or a bottle of whisky or, £100 to £500 a day, or a shared lease for£500 to £1000 a year,
If you are a gamekeeper or forest ranger you even get paid. .

Traditional bow hunting Elk in the Rockies still takes a lot of beating.

 

[Siubhal]

A gentleman of consummate taste!