Straight pull AR10/AR15's for stalking
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glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Like bringing a semi-automatic s/gun to a driven game shoot 
I had a southern gun company.223 straight pull which I used for foxing and at the range
Got rid of it coz it looked a bit incongruous in the field and it made me feel like a bit of a Walt
Wish I hadn’t sold it now
Now in the market for a .22LR semi for the miniature range and the shooting club(s)
So I’m back as a Walt
Got rid of it coz it looked a bit incongruous in the field and it made me feel like a bit of a Walt
Wish I hadn’t sold it now
Now in the market for a .22LR semi for the miniature range and the shooting club(s)
So I’m back as a Walt
Either your brother was very unlucky with his SGC, or the restoration of gas-powered ejection in lever-release operation fouled something up. I had a manual 223 SGC with a match quality Lilja barrel, match trigger assembly etc that I shot in prone deliberate competition for many years and it was an extremely accurate rifle - quarter to third MOA groups at 100 metres was the norm with 80gn SMKs. I used it in the early days of F-Class including Diggle 1,000 yard comps where people were astonished at the time that a 223 would reach that distance never mind stay on the frame, and beat a fair few reasonably high-grade 308s at 600 yards in competition. Later rebarreled to 6.8 Hornady SPC by SGC, it continued to shoot extremely well.
The downsides for stalking I'd imagine are in weight as many have mentioned, and the horrendous 'clack' as the bolt closes. Since my straight-pull days, the larger AR-10s might have been sorted, but I found bolt opening on the fired case (308, later 6.5 Creedmoor) way too hard and difficult when I had an early example. This made it unattractive in range use, and I've had thought useless in the field.
DPM, MTP and lots of ARs 
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Pump gunFAC
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Most accurate self loading rifle I ever had my hands on was the Dutch AR-10 in 7.62mm NATO. They'd shoot an inch at one hundred yards. It far far outclassed the L1A1 SLR. Or indeed for accuracy the Bren or the GPMG both of which I've also shot. Best 7.62mm NATO self-loading rifle ever in some opinions was the AR-10.
As for straight pull? I've owned a Ross 1905 in .280 Ross and that was enough for me. I really really can't see what advantage at all for stalking that any straight pull, old or modern, gives over either a bolt action or a MODERN underlever action such as the Browning BLR (which is really a underlever operated rack and pinion applied to conventional bolt type action).
I've been shooting since 1976 with my first FAC granted in June that year. If I'd wanted a straight pull buggered about with jerrymandered (or MacGyvered as the Americans say) version of a self loading rifle I'd have had one long before Thatcher's 1988 centrefire self-loading and pump action rifle ban. You know the lady...that same Thatcher that a certain type still worship at the altar of.
As for straight pull? I've owned a Ross 1905 in .280 Ross and that was enough for me. I really really can't see what advantage at all for stalking that any straight pull, old or modern, gives over either a bolt action or a MODERN underlever action such as the Browning BLR (which is really a underlever operated rack and pinion applied to conventional bolt type action).
I've been shooting since 1976 with my first FAC granted in June that year. If I'd wanted a straight pull buggered about with jerrymandered (or MacGyvered as the Americans say) version of a self loading rifle I'd have had one long before Thatcher's 1988 centrefire self-loading and pump action rifle ban. You know the lady...that same Thatcher that a certain type still worship at the altar of.
I use an AR-15 in .223 for foxing and have done so for a number of years.
I initally got it for 2 main reasons, I knew I was going to use NV and it gave the cleanest mounting available at the time (this was pre NV scopes using traditional scope form factors) and also for the shortness for getting in and out of the truck.
Based on my experiences there are advantages and disadvantages.
Pros:
"Tidy" mounting of rail mount scopes.
Using adjustable stocks you can have a very compact rifle for use from a vehicle.
Easy on off with a bipod if you have a rail mount bipod.
Pretty impervious to weather.
10/20 round magazine is enough for a while night, no extra mags or reloading.
Follow up shots if required are very fast, though only marginally faster than a bolt action if you practice.
Often come with a faster twist barrel than traditionally found on a .223
Cons:
UGLY, and "military" connotations. (not really an issue at night on private land to be fair)
Standard triggers are heavy but aftermarket units solve that.
Lock time is longer than a traditional striker fired bolt action. You wouldnt think this would be an issue and it shouldnt be, but it will highlight any deficiancies in your marksmanship with regards to your follow through.
Noisy when charging. This can be overcome to a degree by "riding" the bolt forward and then either using a forward assist or forward pressure on a side charging handle to get the extractor over the case rim and lock the bolt.
Can be fiddly to unload.
Suffer more feeding malfuntions than a bolt action.
Will mark the tips of bullets when extracting live rounds as they drag across the barrel extension on the way out.
Cold to handle in the winter!
Expensive compared to a more traditional bolt action.
Shorter barrels rob your velocity.
Can be heavy.
Based on my experience, if i was doing it now I would personally go with a .223 with an 18 inch barrel, stainless action with rail, cerakoted and a synthetic stock with a short rail section at the forend. Probaby a T3 with an AICS conversion to allow larger magazine capacity. That would give me virtually all of the benefits I identify above with virtually none of the cons.
Mine is an accurate rifle, has performed well and accounted for a good number of foxes. I'm not going to bother changing it but I dare say I wouldnt have another.
I initally got it for 2 main reasons, I knew I was going to use NV and it gave the cleanest mounting available at the time (this was pre NV scopes using traditional scope form factors) and also for the shortness for getting in and out of the truck.
Based on my experiences there are advantages and disadvantages.
Pros:
"Tidy" mounting of rail mount scopes.
Using adjustable stocks you can have a very compact rifle for use from a vehicle.
Easy on off with a bipod if you have a rail mount bipod.
Pretty impervious to weather.
10/20 round magazine is enough for a while night, no extra mags or reloading.
Follow up shots if required are very fast, though only marginally faster than a bolt action if you practice.
Often come with a faster twist barrel than traditionally found on a .223
Cons:
UGLY, and "military" connotations. (not really an issue at night on private land to be fair)
Standard triggers are heavy but aftermarket units solve that.
Lock time is longer than a traditional striker fired bolt action. You wouldnt think this would be an issue and it shouldnt be, but it will highlight any deficiancies in your marksmanship with regards to your follow through.
Noisy when charging. This can be overcome to a degree by "riding" the bolt forward and then either using a forward assist or forward pressure on a side charging handle to get the extractor over the case rim and lock the bolt.
Can be fiddly to unload.
Suffer more feeding malfuntions than a bolt action.
Will mark the tips of bullets when extracting live rounds as they drag across the barrel extension on the way out.
Cold to handle in the winter!
Expensive compared to a more traditional bolt action.
Shorter barrels rob your velocity.
Can be heavy.
Based on my experience, if i was doing it now I would personally go with a .223 with an 18 inch barrel, stainless action with rail, cerakoted and a synthetic stock with a short rail section at the forend. Probaby a T3 with an AICS conversion to allow larger magazine capacity. That would give me virtually all of the benefits I identify above with virtually none of the cons.
Mine is an accurate rifle, has performed well and accounted for a good number of foxes. I'm not going to bother changing it but I dare say I wouldnt have another.
6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
I’ve owned more than a few AR’s both 10’s and 15’s . The 10 with the 260 upper or 338 upper was quite nice and accurate . The 15 with the Alexander Arms 6.5 Grendel would drive tacks . All of mine had the original non adjustable stock as they were all bought for killing deer . Once I’d killed deer with all of them the all wandered down the road . If the AR platform isn’t semi auto I personally have no use for it , bottom line the AR-10’s especially are quite heavy . The AR-15 Grendel wasn’t light but manageable . But honestly if I have to work the bolt myself a regular bolt action rifle suits my needs much better . For those that wanna try them all the lowers I owned had Geiselle triggers FWIW !
PhilSN12
Well-Known Member
I have been using my Schmeisser for several years now. I changed the trigger for a Timney one and tarted it up a bit because you can with the huge amount of add ons for the AR platform and it is the best most flexible foxing rifle I have had. No problems with accuracy, no problems with cocking noise as it gets cocked after I leave the car and then straight after I have taken a shot, it has a 14.5" barrel so size is not an issue & it does not weigh that much which is a bonus. Let me know if you have any questions on it.
PhilSN12
Well-Known Member
If you cock the weapon straight after you have fired a shot, you don't have to worry about giving your position away. And luckily, foxes do not return fire.
I know everyone's tastes are different but if all I was allowed to use for hunting was a boring humdrum sako, tikka, blaser etc etc instead of old surplus rifles or something i'd consider fun then I wouldn't enjoy it and probably wouldn't do it. Yes the light weight regular bolt action hunting rifle is a good tool for the job, I wouldn't say the "right" tool because at the end of the day a bullet is a bullet regardless of what it's fired from
PhilSN12
Well-Known Member
You are absolutely right.
I would never say that a straight pull AR is the best weapon in the world for hunting, but it works for me. There are lots of preconceptions on this platform, but as somone who uses one every week, I think I have a understanding of what mine is like to use so I pass that on.
I've just has an A4 style rifle built with carry handle sights and 18" barrel in 223 wylde. Once I'm comfortable with it, I'll take some munties.
It's from a new to straightpull builder, so we're working on some prototype parts too.
Woodland stalking, while humming fortunate son!
Do I have more appropriate deer rifles, yes, but this is a tool that will do the job well.
It's from a new to straightpull builder, so we're working on some prototype parts too.
Woodland stalking, while humming fortunate son!
Do I have more appropriate deer rifles, yes, but this is a tool that will do the job well.
6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
The one or two things about the AR platforms that actually surprised me were the accuracy level . Without a doubt the Alex Arms Grendel upper was the most accurate 1/4 MOA was a regular thing with my handloads . I had a Stag Arms in 6.8 that was almost as good . Neither of those had anything done to the factory uppers other than adding scopes . The lower they were both fired from only had a Geiselle trigger installation . The 450 Bushmaster was okay but not in the same class accuracy wise . The AR-10 platforms I owned all shot exceptionally well . The 308 was factory DPMS , the 243 was also factory but I’ve forgotten who made it , the 260 and 338 were uppers we built using Deadshot barrels . Deadshot barrels was a stab in the dark , I found one of their test fired barrels on Gunbroker for a little of nothing so I bought it and made the upper . First groups with a max load were inside 1/2 MOA so I never tried anything else in the upper Hornady 123 SST pushed with IMR4064 . When I decided I wanted a 338 Federal upper I ordered the barrel from Deadshot and it shot just as well with Federal factory ammo . It was no great feat killing deer with any of them . It was however a little difficult sometimes to use them as quickly as my normal rifles ! I hate loosing brass so I always used a brass catcher on them and it had a small frame that stuck out from the side of the gun maybe three or four inches . And with a suppressor on the end didn’t help convenience aspect either .
Bouncingoffthelocks
Well-Known Member
As it happens I have an SGC in 223 which needs a new home. Let me work out how to post an ad and I will pop a link in the thread.
palmer_mike
Well-Known Member
For Sale: - Southern Gun Company .223 straight pull
Welcome to the sale of my Southern Gun Company "speedmaster" in .223. As you can see from the photos it is a complete package (less the bipod) to get started - just load up the mags and off you go. I am the second owner, gun built in 2011 for previous owner- I have the build spec invoice...
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
