Sub forum idea …

[Conor O'Gorman]

I don't accept that, I believe that there may have been an element of collusion between BASC, Swift and the LAG on this, it would be amazing if BASC and Swift never discussed the matter.

Can you not give it a rest. It's thanks to BASC that lead ammunition was not banned years ago and I have been telling you that from direct experience over many years, and before my time you have Colin Shedden's perspective.

Lead Shot: A Historical Reflection

In this blog, BASC Scotland director, Dr Colin Shedden, explores BASC’s long-standing involvement with lead shot and how the policy and science has evolved over the years.

basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

For the life of me I can’t understand why BASC takes such a pasting on the lead issue.
If you accept that a lead ban was inevitable, I think they’ve done quite well in negotiations.
I think they made a complete cock of the voluntary transition and I think that they should never have supported the licensing regime for grouse shooting in Scotland.
They should be beaten about the head with a sock of wet shite for accepting the lower level of proof of BOP persecution required to withhold licenses.

None of the shooting organisations wanted a licensing system. Here is an overview from BASC following its implementation last year.

Scotland's first licensed grouse shooting season comes to an end

This year's grouse season in Scotland was the first with the new licensing regime in place; we debunk some of the myths that have emerged.

basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

That’s because they are the voice of shooting, don’t you know?

Here is what BASC stands for:

What BASC stands for

We are the keeper of our traditions and the guardians of our future. We are stability and we are change.

basc.org.uk

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Largest maybe, if the current discussion on lead bans are to be believed, both on SD, Fieldsports Channel or indeed elsewhere they are far from the voice of anyone but their own bigwigs!

The threads on the lead restrictions timetabled for 2029 have been dominated by misinformation and you have unfortunately been part of that. BASC opposed the HSE lead ban proposals every stage of the way and BASC technical reports secured exemptions for lead airgun pellets and smaller lead rifle ammunition calibres and BASC is the only organisation so far that has committed to seeking further amendments - for .243 and a longer transition time. You should be grateful to BASC for its efforts on your behalf and I know that's probably too much to ask, so perhaps instead you could put a lid on the relentless misinformation.

 

[cjm1066]

Can we have a forum were you need to say something orginal about lead?

I won't hold my breath waiting for a post....

 

[Dunwaters]

I don't accept that, I believe that there may have been an element of collusion between BASC, Swift and the LAG on this, it would be amazing if BASC and Swift never discussed the matter.

I disagree, I’m going to stick with my conviction that BASC did the best job they could under the circumstances.
Just about every single hunting organisation in Europe advanced the very same defence.
We got hammered.
What more do you think they could have achieved?
You can talk it to death with your members, but that consultation won’t change the final outcome one iota.
A ban on lead ammunition is government policy across Europe, including the UK, if you think that having a law changed is easy, try having a government or corporation admit to a mistake in policy.

 

[Twodogs]

For the life of me I can’t understand why BASC takes such a pasting on the lead issue.
If you accept that a lead ban was inevitable, I think they’ve done quite well in negotiations.
I think they made a complete cock of the voluntary transition and I think that they should never have supported the licensing regime for grouse shooting in Scotland.
They should be beaten about the head with a sock of wet shite for accepting the lower level of proof of BOP persecution required to withhold licenses.

‘Was inevitable’ is it not currently at the report stage?
If it gets through all the parliamentary mangles it will more likely than not have to be introduced by primary legislation, so it can queue up behind the proposed moderator changes.
Don’t hold your breath.

 

[Dunwaters]

None of the shooting organisations wanted a licensing system. Here is an overview from BASC following its implementation last year.

Scotland's first licensed grouse shooting season comes to an end

This year's grouse season in Scotland was the first with the new licensing regime in place; we debunk some of the myths that have emerged.

basc.org.uk

Thank you.
However the review doesn’t come close to addressing my concerns as we discussed them previously.
No doubt you remember, you were kind enough to take time to respond in detail, which I appreciate.
I still fundamentally disagree with the requirement to have a licence to shoot a specified native birds on your own land, open seasons should apply.
I also disagree with the concept that there should be a lower level of evidential proof in wildlife crime, particularly BOP persecution on licensed areas.
Criminal court levels of punishment should require criminal court levels of evidence.
This is my opinion, you may disagree, but you’ll need a really compelling argument to change my mind.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Thank you.
However the review doesn’t come close to addressing my concerns as we discussed them previously.
No doubt you remember, you were kind enough to take time to respond in detail, which I appreciate.
I still fundamentally disagree with the requirement to have a licence to shoot a specified native birds on your own land, open seasons should apply.
I also disagree with the concept that there should be a lower level of evidential proof in wildlife crime, particularly BOP persecution on licensed areas.
Criminal court levels of punishment should require criminal court levels of evidence.
This is my opinion, you may disagree, but you’ll need a really compelling argument to change my mind.

I understand where you are coming from and every legal avenue was explored on this.

 

[Leec6.5]

Here is what BASC stands for:

What BASC stands for

We are the keeper of our traditions and the guardians of our future. We are stability and we are change.

basc.org.uk

Many many moons ago I would have believed you.

 

[Dunwaters]

I understand where you are coming from and every legal avenue was explored on this.

I have no doubt that you had advice, I just don’t agree with it and I think it sets an unhealthy precedent.
As you pointed out at the time, I’m not a member and I’m not affected, so I’ll just leave it lie.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I have no doubt that you had advice, I just don’t agree with it and I think it sets an unhealthy precedent.
As you pointed out at the time, I’m not a member and I’m not affected, so I’ll just leave it lie.

That is reasonable of you (the statue awaits) and I agree that this licensing system sets a precedent and BASC remains opposed to shoot licensing.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

Many many moons ago I would have believed you.

I hope one day you will believe again.

 

[Dunwaters]

That is reasonable of you (the statue awaits) and I agree that this licensing system sets a precedent and BASC remains opposed to shoot licensing.

If you were opposed to the licensing regime, you should have said so, and not recommended compliance and advised on achieving it.
The old union trick of stating the case
“ without recommendation “ and allowing people to make their own decision may have been a better alternative .


My statue is indeed somewhat overdue, the go fund me page remains unsubscribed, I am also encountering difficulties with locating a suitable site. My favourite concept is me straddling the entrance of Dublin port, symbolically linking the north side and Soutside.
Strangely Dublin City council and the port and docks board do not appear to be taking the proposal seriously.
The views of my genitalia will of course be tastefully managed and illuminated from several perspectives.