The challenges of obtaining permissions

[Andy seatrout]

That may be so. They are the 'recognised' body for training whilst advertising for deer education, research and best management practices. You would think when they offer out a mentorship it would be something they could provide.

The problem is that the BDS is a charity, so much of it is run on a costs only basis and a lot of the management / trainers etc are providing their time free of charge….

Unfortunately the mentoring programs will only be as good as the mentors ability to commit said time, my understanding is they’re not paid to do so.

I’ve worked in corporate sector and have experience of the voluntary sector ; what gets paid gets done, unfortunately apart from the very saintly…. It’s difficult to guarantee the commitment long term from volunteers…..

 

[Klenchblaize]

Can’t be doing with reading every post as such threads usually head off topic in relatively short order.

That said I remain keen to understand what facilities for carcass processing the Op has in place to accommodate the beasts arising from the cull plan applicable to the thousands of acres of highly populated deer terrain he now has access to. Ditto how many days a month are given over to achieving said cull plan/s.

I don’t seek to take anything away from the Op’s cunning and well-considered approach as I can very much relate to such but no harm in reflecting on the importance of delivering results - read demonstrably less deer that will unlikely be realised by just the occasional Weekend outing.

K
DEFRA Deer Management Consultant (In-Waiting)!

 

[User00040]

DEFRA Deer Management Consultant (In-Waiting)!

 

[sharkbait]

I've been down many routes chasing land Sent out a good couple hundred letters offering help! Out of all them letters I got one email back explaining his Tennant farmer had shooters already and thankd me for offering, which I thought was rather good of him to reply back even if it was a no! I'm under the impression now that there is no shortage of shooters out there some with more land than they can handle! and most farmers land owners get fed up with being asked all the time about it and have turned it into another income and rightly so! I know I would do the same in there shoes, but where does that leave stalkers like me that would be happy to get involved and help out on big culls but can't afford to pay for stalking.

 

[TringSaint]

Can’t be doing with reading every post as such threads usually head off topic in relatively short order.

That said I remain keen to understand what facilities for carcass processing the Op has in place to accommodate the beasts arising from the cull plan applicable to the thousands of acres of highly populated deer terrain he now has access to. Ditto how many days a month are given over to achieving said cull plan/s.

I don’t seek to take anything away from the Op’s cunning and well-considered approach as I can very much relate to such but no harm in reflecting on the importance of delivering results - read demonstrably less deer that will unlikely be realised by just the occasional Weekend outing.

K
DEFRA Deer Management Consultant (In-Waiting)!

Thanks for your critique.
It’s a shame you hadn’t read all of the posts as then you might not have made some rather daft statements and come across in a bit of a pompous way!

As they say, the devil is in the detail!!

I have adequate larder facilities as I process them quickly and have a suitable means of waste disposal.
I give most of my venison away - family, friends, farmers, and I have a few others who I trade venison for other things like firewood, there is no commercial angle to what I do.

As for managing the population, I have been doing this for a decade or so and have nothing but happy landowners, so I must be doing something right.
You may not have experience of cwd yet as a trainee defra deer manager, but it’s what I spend 95% of my time stalking, so I know the species quite well.

They are quite easy to count and assess population density and location, they are territorial so don’t move vast distances and if you know their habits, easy to find.

But, as previously stated, I am quite prolific when I hunt, regularly taking 2 or 3 in an outing (it was 2 today and I will be out again on Thursday targeting 2 more).

So I wouldn’t worry too much about what I am doing!

All of that aside, my initial post was written to HELP others who might be struggling to find land. Sharing my experiences might enable someone else to use a similar tack to obtain a permission (I have already shared my letter with a forum member) and thus giving another hobby hunter the chance to do what we do.

But to jump into my thread and call me cunning is very disingenuous as I am not cunning. I do my research, I target land where I believe that there is a problem and where I can help and it’s down to the farmer as to whether they take me up on it. Once on the land I do exactly what I say I am going to do.

I personally believe this is far better than to chuck said farmer a few hundred quid just for access and then do a rubbish job.

My farmers ask me to help and I manage their deer - they are happy, I am happy (the deer are less happy, but that’s life!). So whilst being a trainee defra deer manager might give you a bit of kudos somewhere, but I’m this case I think it’s backfired!

Thanks all the same!

 

[T.eddie]

I think sometimes just putting yourself out there is all you can do, I have my permission which is owned by a farming company and the Essex branch manager has the authority to give me the permission, this covers a few thousand acres in total spread across a number of farms. none have any big pockets of woodland themselves, plenty of hedgerows and the odd spiney though. The farms aren't heaving with deer and im allowed to take an approach that I see fit. They have not had anyone shoot on the farm for deer at least in well over 10 years due to not trusting people. So while some stalking may be sewn up in areas some may just not be available because the farm doesn't want people they don't know on there

 

[Bowland blades]

It's well nigh impossible to get hold of some shooting without treading on somebody's toes.

If your not intentionally trying to steal a certain Known persons land , then the fault lies with the current stalker ! Either they didn't shoot enough or was shooting too much etc etc .
Knowing who shoots a piece and singularly and directly going after it , offering more cash etc ? That's not on! especially if the person making the approach found out about being a guest ! I dont Like telling other folks where i can shoot because some will do this, have even turned down comming back to a farm when they got let down

 

[Klenchblaize]

Thanks for your critique.
It’s a shame you hadn’t read all of the posts as then you might not have made some rather daft statements and come across in a bit of a pompous way!

As they say, the devil is in the detail!!

I have adequate larder facilities as I process them quickly and have a suitable means of waste disposal.
I give most of my venison away - family, friends, farmers, and I have a few others who I trade venison for other things like firewood, there is no commercial angle to what I do.

As for managing the population, I have been doing this for a decade or so and have nothing but happy landowners, so I must be doing something right.
You may not have experience of cwd yet as a trainee defra deer manager, but it’s what I spend 95% of my time stalking, so I know the species quite well.

They are quite easy to count and assess population density and location, they are territorial so don’t move vast distances and if you know their habits, easy to find.

But, as previously stated, I am quite prolific when I hunt, regularly taking 2 or 3 in an outing (it was 2 today and I will be out again on Thursday targeting 2 more).

So I wouldn’t worry too much about what I am doing!

All of that aside, my initial post was written to HELP others who might be struggling to find land. Sharing my experiences might enable someone else to use a similar tack to obtain a permission (I have already shared my letter with a forum member) and thus giving another hobby hunter the chance to do what we do.

But to jump into my thread and call me cunning is very disingenuous as I am not cunning. I do my research, I target land where I believe that there is a problem and where I can help and it’s down to the farmer as to whether they take me up on it. Once on the land I do exactly what I say I am going to do.

I personally believe this is far better than to chuck said farmer a few hundred quid just for access and then do a rubbish job.

My farmers ask me to help and I manage their deer - they are happy, I am happy (the deer are less happy, but that’s life!). So whilst being a trainee defra deer manager might give you a bit of kudos somewhere, but I’m this case I think it’s backfired!

Thanks all the same!

“Cunning” was a compliment whether or not you like the choice of word.

As for the rest of your critique it’s very valid but I believe you’ve missed one very important aspect of my post: It was written part tongue-in-cheek and as one more failed stab at humour!

I’m not perfect as I keep trying to make clear to the SD membership.

K

 

[TringSaint]

“Cunning” was a compliment whether or not you like the choice of word.

As for the rest of your critique it’s very valid but I believe you’ve missed one very important aspect of my post: It was written part tongue-in-cheek and as one more failed stab at humour!

I’m not perfect as I keep trying to make clear to the SD membership.

K

You are correct - your post did not come across as humorous. Not in the least!

Maybe don’t criticise someone without knowing all the facts?

And I don’t consider myself to be cunning. Intelligent? Yes. Considered? Yes. But cunning (aka like a fox) suggests a level of subterfuge or deceit, which is something I do not do.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Is there an emoji we can use for tongue in cheek comments to avoid such misconceptions?

 

[Jh1986]

Is there an emoji we can use for tongue in cheek comments to avoid such misconceptions?

I think it's this one

 

[TringSaint]

I think it's this one

View attachment 290497

I think that might be an emoji for something else!!

 

[Klenchblaize]

Is there an emoji we can use for tongue in cheek comments to avoid such misconceptions?

No need.

I’ll happily present myself at the next Deer Management annual appraisal with a copy of the Beano NRA Journal firmly thrust down my pants in anticipation of the section where one’s success, or otherwise, in CPD is rigorously assessed.

K

 

[Pine Marten]

Is there an emoji we can use for tongue in cheek comments to avoid such misconceptions?

On the French forum I use, people colour their text in blue when doing this. I don't know why. It is also noticeable that they NEVER discuss politics unlwaa directly related to hunting. This is either because they're all in agreement with each other, or it's standard French practice to avoid violence.

 

[TringSaint]

On the French forum I use, people colour their text in blue when doing this. I don't know why. It is also noticeable that they NEVER discuss politics unlwaa directly related to hunting. This is either because they're all in agreement with each other, or it's standard French practice to avoid violence.

I thought that hunting and politics in France went hand in hand! Esp reading some of the horrific hunting incidents over the last few years - I mean mistaking a human for a wild boar??

 

[Pine Marten]

I thought that hunting and politics in France went hand in hand! Esp reading some of the horrific hunting incidents over the last few years - I mean mistaking a human for a wild boar??

That's not politics, that's just being a dangerous halfwit. OK, OK, admittedly those have overlapped of late in Downing Street so can be hard to tell the difference.

 

[TringSaint]

That's not politics, that's just being a dangerous halfwit. OK, OK, admittedly those have overlapped of late in Downing Street so can be hard to tell the difference.

It was more about the campaign to have a hunting free day. It became a political hot potato as some in the government supported tighter controls, but the very rural (and very vocal) population were staunchly opposed to any restrictions.

Hunting seems far more political in France than in the uk.

 

[TringSaint]

Anyway, this is /has gone off topic now.
I just hope that any land-less stalkers have a renewed sense of determination to send or deliver those letters and try to get their own patches.

If I get offered any more land then I will post it on here as I have as much as I can handle.

Happy hunting all!