Fosbery Holster
Well-Known Member
Has anyone on SD ever tried it......my best with an SMLE was 18 rounds at 200yds, charger loading, boy does the rifle get hot !!
The "Mad Minute"
- Thread starter Foxyboy43
- Start date
kennyc
Well-Known Member
the British Alpine Rifles do an Agincourt match at Bisley, During the Trafalgar meeting . open to all bolt action military rifles using a max of 5 rounds per charger, all you can shoot in a minute at 300 yds, standing, unsupported, great fun, I have done it a couple of times and won it once. but 15rpm seems to be a practical limit with most folk not getting that (match is scored on hits so aiming is important)
prone with the chargers alongside in easy reach then 20- 25 would be my guess (based on the falling plates comp)
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Yep. At our club we host a Somme Anniversary shoot on the saturday nearest the 1st July - open to all contemporary rifles. Fantastic fun and for even more craic we do the same advancing with side arms at 10 yard increments using everything from lugers/mausers/colts/webleys and even the odd mosin nagant but let us draw a discreet veil over the scores......
'Mad Minute' forms part of the short range (100-300yds) old military rifle competitions at the club where I shoot, and I think it's hard to see how practising rapid aimed fire and reloading could do anything but good to a soldier's performance in the field - unless, of course, that's all the practice one ever did. We also shoot snaps, McQueens etc., as well as classic Bisley-style prone at longer ranges.
Since we're thinking about the time around the Great War, Walter Winans' 'Practical Rifle Shooting' of 1906 might be worth a read. I think that trying, as I do, to become a practical rifleman I need aspects from pretty much all the disciplines one finds at a busy rifle-club - off-hand rapid-fire, moving target, sporting rifle, prone rapid fire, prone target-rifle etc. All support some of the skills of the well-rounded shooter - wind-reading, hold, dexterity, recovery from recoil, operation and loading of the rifle, coping with targets that are not quite still, shooting supported and unsupported from all possible positions, and so on.
As to the Joan Littlewood school of 1960s revisionist Great War analysis...
Since we're thinking about the time around the Great War, Walter Winans' 'Practical Rifle Shooting' of 1906 might be worth a read. I think that trying, as I do, to become a practical rifleman I need aspects from pretty much all the disciplines one finds at a busy rifle-club - off-hand rapid-fire, moving target, sporting rifle, prone rapid fire, prone target-rifle etc. All support some of the skills of the well-rounded shooter - wind-reading, hold, dexterity, recovery from recoil, operation and loading of the rifle, coping with targets that are not quite still, shooting supported and unsupported from all possible positions, and so on.
As to the Joan Littlewood school of 1960s revisionist Great War analysis...
paul o'
Well-Known Member
The mad min can confuse an advancing force into believing the standing force has more fire power than the really have ! as it tends to slow there advance down to a crawl , so more At's can be bought into the fight and holt it from other units like artillery or air, winning the fire fight = more lead down range than your are getting lol
Fosbery Holster
Well-Known Member
Met a good friend down at Bisley, top pistol shot from Scotland, he was entered in the mad minute with his SMLE, looking at his rifle l commented on the amount of Vaseline on the bolt body and action, what’s all that about said l, helps the bolt slide quickly he said, that’s when l warned him about heat and excessive pressure, off he went to his comp.
Caught up with him after his comp, SMLE now scrapped, action and bolt in bits, not a scratch on the lucky Scotsman...... jammy get !
Caught up with him after his comp, SMLE now scrapped, action and bolt in bits, not a scratch on the lucky Scotsman...... jammy get !
Rhodesianjess
Well-Known Member
At Sandhurst it's called Gaining Fire Initiative.
Time and precision shooting - of which 'mad minute' is an example makes absolute sense in my view
Hard to replicate stress on the range but this does go some way to doing that
As does any snap shooting drill
''Jungle lanes'' is another infantry level skill that is common in many army training programs
Hard to replicate stress on the range but this does go some way to doing that
As does any snap shooting drill
''Jungle lanes'' is another infantry level skill that is common in many army training programs
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
Hot! There's a video of one of the "Old Contemptibles" of 1914 saying how the oil began to weep from his butt so hot was his rifle getting. I did the same competition at Bisley and I think the same fifteen or eighteen shots (and hits) on a Figure 11. At Bisley we had the advantage that our chargers were loose on the ground by the side of us. The British Army "drill" as noted was taking them from a fastened pouch. The "knack" if there is one is greatly aided by having a butt of the correct length. I also shot the same rifle at 200 yards standing and at 900 yards and 1000 yards. Certainly at 1000 yards you realise that the a platoon or company of trained men using the SMLE would have been very effective against advancing conscript infantry moving over open ground..
Namman
Well-Known Member
Very similar in effect to the English (and Welsh) Archers at Agincourt 500 years earlier!
reiver
Well-Known Member
I have with my old 1913 Bsa smle that was made for the NZ Government at Charlie High at Wacop a few times managed to get of 20-25 shots ? not all made there target though !!
newer chargers would probably have helped with reloading the old girl pity she could not tell her life story??
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Fab event ES - was it true that the proper trigger technique was to use the middle finger - improving quick bolt access and cycling? To pick up on the Agincourt post if true this is a clear but doubtless unintended connection to how the archers teased the french.
Roestalker39
Well-Known Member
None of it counts they didn’t have Dsc certs, and I bet they weren’t using “ non toxic “ either 
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enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
The middle finger gets recommended in an Army Training Memorandum of 1943. Firing from the hip. For street fighting. So for sure it had been, at some time, a officially approved technique. And if it was advised in that 1943 manual I've little doubt that approved, or not, it was likely done in WWI.Fab event ES - was it true that the proper trigger technique was to use the middle finger - improving quick bolt access and cycling? To pick up on the Agincourt post if true this is a clear but doubtless unintended connection to how the archers teased the french.
For prone shooting however I found that for me the best technique was to use the trigger finger to pull the trigger. It's the snapping back of the bolt that is the "knack". Again one manual advises first to ensure that the butt is correct for the man and then to have him take up his rifle into the aim and for the Sergeant Instructor to work his bolt.So to prove to the man that it won't hit his face.
Another manual says to work the bolt as if you are trying to deliberately bring it back towards you as if to try to break the bolt handle off at its root.
Fosbery Holster
Well-Known Member
I was shooting a “Mad Minute” comp at Deer Hill Ranges Huddersfield prone with chargers when l had case head separation on the first detail and pulled out.
The range officer allowed me to continue on the next detail for free after l extracted the burst case with my extractor, went on to win the competition with 18 counting shots, second detail.
So after two details with l guess at least 28 ish rounds the old SMLE was literally steaming far too hot to touch, also with oil weeping from the woodwork, left it on the grass to cool down for at least half an hour.
Can’t imagine what the continual fire effect would have on these iconic rifles during battle conditions.
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
Good man FB. Can you even imagine the heat mirage and sighting difficulties after a sustained course of this in combat?
Fosbery Holster
Well-Known Member
I have with my old 1913 Bsa smle that was made for the NZ Government at Charlie High at Wacop a few times managed to get of 20-25 shots ? not all made there target though !!
newer chargers would probably have helped with reloading the old girl pity she could not tell her life story??
During my preparation for comps like this l bought a shed load of chargers and chose the best that would allow the rounds to exit and slip into the magazine the quickest, meticulously cleaned them and polished them with black grate polish, your fingers are black after the comp but well worth it.
The rules vary also, in terms of how many rounds you may put in your rifle before the minute starts: we've shot 'as many as you can' - whereby L-E shooters load 11rounds, leaving 5-round-mag shooters feeling cheated. More recently at our place everybody is allowed to load only 5rounds - which is fairer.
