Things that went wrong in the history of shooting orgs and successes

kes

Well-Known Member
1.Pistol Ban
2.John Swift - Audi too?
3. Richard Ali, his Personnel director and Finance director.
4. Including Greylag geese on the list of species with no close season on the general licence.
5 10 year licences
6 Shop a shooter
7. Let the police in without warning and minus search warrant or reasonable excuse/ dont let the police in - Merseyside
8 Medical costs - do nothing/do something/ do little enough/ no results

Sadly, aside from personal issues, I cant think of but 1no real success - below;
NGO - buzzard challenge.


Lets assume the following - 150 K members - one org @£75 perannum - income £11,250,000
30k members - no 2 org @ £40 " - income £1,200,000
20k members no 3 org @ £35 " - income £700,000
50K members no 4 org @£60 " - income £3,000,000

Total benefit - very little, total costs to shooters - £16,150,000

Yiu wonder why I moan on so much ?
Please feel free to add to the list of positives or negatives.
 

User00025

Well-Known Member
1.Pistol Ban
2.John Swift - Audi too?
3. Richard Ali, his Personnel director and Finance director.
4. Including Greylag geese on the list of species with no close season on the general licence.
5 10 year licences
6 Shop a shooter
7. Let the police in without warning and minus search warrant or reasonable excuse/ dont let the police in - Merseyside
8 Medical costs - do nothing/do something/ do little enough/ no results

Sadly, aside from personal issues, I cant think of but 1no real success - below;
NGO - buzzard challenge.


Lets assume the following - 150 K members - one org @£75 perannum - income £11,250,000
30k members - no 2 org @ £40 " - income £1,200,000
20k members no 3 org @ £35 " - income £700,000
50K members no 4 org @£60 " - income £3,000,000

Total benefit - very little, total costs to shooters - £16,150,000

Yiu wonder why I moan on so much ?
Please feel free to add to the list of positives or negatives.

+1 With you all the way. Buzzard jobbie wasa good one though. No positives elsewhere.
 

enfieldspares

Well-Known Member
The British NRA.

The only answer needed. All the rest of the whole sad and sorry history follows from them. That is the thing that is wrong with British shooting. The British NRA and it total failure.

I am convinced that had in 1954 the NRA mandated that the new SLR be used in its Service Rifle competitions from, say, 1964...indeed all its competitions shot at less than 600 yards that there would have been no self-loading rifle ban in 1988. It would perhaps even have thrown a lifeline to BSA who, of course, also produced the SLR as well as did Enfield Lock. And that had there been no self-loading rifle ban in 1988 there would have been no pistol ban in 1996 as the 1988 ban set the precedent for the 1996 ban.
 
Last edited:

rodp

Well-Known Member
The answer is quite simple really. In the states the shooting orgs do it for the shooting community, they want to keep the sport going. In the UK they do it for the money, they don't care about the shooting community, just about salary and pension.
If they wrote it down and thrust it in your face they couldn't make it any clearer.

That's my view anyway.
 

User00025

Well-Known Member
The answer is quite simple really. In the states the shooting orgs do it for the shooting community, they want to keep the sport going. In the UK they do it for the money, they don't care about the shooting community, just about salary and pension.
If they wrote it down and thrust it in your face they couldn't make it any clearer.

That's my view anyway.

+1 If I were a young man it would nearly drive me mad, but in my dotage I know some of these organisations for what they are. A gravy train for some and stuff those who pay in. When BASC changed from "WAGBI" and took in "The Gamekeepers Association" into what it has now become, that was it's death knell for members.
 

reloader54

Well-Known Member
With the american hunting orgs, if anyone is interested a quick search on the net will give an idea of just how much $$$ is ploughed back into habitat, wildlife management, ect, the licencing/tag system seems to generate a healthy contribution towards this, of course with such a huge land mass and number of hunters willing to contribute, the benefits to both hunters and wildlife are massive. its a shame but it couldn't work on such a small island as this,,,, unless,, we got rid of 3/4 of the population,:eek: leaving the other 1/4 with a hefty bill,,:doh:

and who decides who goes,,and who stays??

well certainly not any current "voice of shooting":rofl:
 

kes

Well-Known Member
Does anyone really find this latest debacle surprising ?
I knew BASC were incompetent (Last 2 CE's) but I am surprised they are prepared to lie - I would trust SACS every time. I just cant find it in me to say again that BASC in its present form is for the few, (largely themselves) and not the many (the membership). It would seem as though more heads need to roll. What I find amazing is that a shooting organisation is prepared to give names and addresses of shooters to anti-shooting people, if only by default or lack of intelligence.
£70+ per year for this ? As McCenroe said "you must......" and still the members pay.
Beggars belief.
Then again BASC know best - don't they? (Greylag geese )
 

N1mr0d

Well-Known Member
I think it is too simplistic to simply blame our shooting organisations for the ludicrous, non-evidence based, knee-jerk reactions we have been submitted to as they do not vote in Parliament, our MP's have far more to answer for.
 

kes

Well-Known Member
I think it is too simplistic to simply blame our shooting organisations for the ludicrous, non-evidence based, knee-jerk reactions we have been submitted to as they do not vote in Parliament, our MP's have far more to answer for.

Look above at the Findhorn wildfowling consultation report POST 5- thats what I am talking about - its in black and white and NOT an opinion. I say again, BASC in its current form is not fit for purpose.
 

Whitebeard

Well-Known Member
The biggest **** up in British shooting organisations, has got to be the National Pistol Associations submission to the European Court of Justice to overturn the Pistol ban, costing in excess of £250K and submitted by a team of high profile lawyers it was thrown out after it was pointed out by the court that pistols had not been banned just moved to Section 5 prohibited.

Ian
 

Pedro

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, the biggest and ongoing mistake is how we let our society be one of tolerance towards shooting sports slide inexorably probably since WW2 into a society where a large proportion of people now see guns as the devil's work.

There is no comprehension amongst many about the difference between weapons and sporting forearms. Any rifle sporting a scope is "a sniper rifle". Anybody seen in possession of a firearm in public in many areas is subject to numerous calls to the police who attend in force, suitably "tooled up". This, from an age where the local gamekeeper could walk around the neighbourhood with his shotgun under his arm, where you could walk to Euston with a rifle and take the train up to Scotland for some stalking without even an eyebrow being raised. Where every farmer had a gun behind the door, easily to hand and where you could sit in the pub and have your lunch, with your gun propped up beside you.

Over a very long period, all our shooting organisations have continually failed to stop this change of attitude. How on Earth then do we think it possible that they can ever reverse it?
 

Tom D

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, the biggest and ongoing mistake is how we let our society be one of tolerance towards shooting sports slide inexorably probably since WW2 into a society where a large proportion of people now see guns as the devil's work.

There is no comprehension amongst many about the difference between weapons and sporting forearms. Any rifle sporting a scope is "a sniper rifle". Anybody seen in possession of a firearm in public in many areas is subject to numerous calls to the police who attend in force, suitably "tooled up". This, from an age where the local gamekeeper could walk around the neighbourhood with his shotgun under his arm, where you could walk to Euston with a rifle and take the train up to Scotland for some stalking without even an eyebrow being raised. Where every farmer had a gun behind the door, easily to hand and where you could sit in the pub and have your lunch, with your gun propped up beside you.

Over a very long period, all our shooting organisations have continually failed to stop this change of attitude. How on Earth then do we think it possible that they can ever reverse it?
Sadly this is very true. But worse than that we are now entering a new phase where people are so disconnected with their food that they won’t even touch meat any more..http://www.thepigsite.com/swinenews/44857/notouch-meat-packaging-for-millennials/ . It’s hard to see where this will end up but it’s not looking good. I also find it deeply worrying that there appears to be no longer any hunting on tv. Not long ago the likes of Hugh Fearnly Whittingstall showed stalking and cooking the venison, and also shooting rabbits and other things. These types of programs have gone too. The public can hardly be expected to understand hunting when there appears to be a total media blackout on the subject. That is of course with the exception of the antis messages and ********s posting grip and grin shots on the internet.
 

Sylvanius

Well-Known Member
The answer is quite simple really. In the states the shooting orgs do it for the shooting community, they want to keep the sport going. In the UK they do it for the money, they don't care about the shooting community, just about salary and pension.
If they wrote it down and thrust it in your face they couldn't make it any clearer.

That's my view anyway.
- mind you, if you follow some Youtube channels like TGC, or The Reloading Podcast etc. you'll see they have if anything possibly even more internal strife and member dissatisfaction there in the U.S NRA too, despite the far different legislation. I've seen it also called a "jobs for the boys" type organisation. Without doubt of course, one big difference is the U.S NRA really does have politicians ears, which is not the case here in reality.
 

kes

Well-Known Member
Here's one of the key achievements

[FONT=&quot]Been a key voice in support of shooting, in talks with the government and the police, with regard to several important areas, including medical involvement in licensing and modernising the firearms licensing process.[/FONT]


That was no2 and is clearly an exaggeration given the state we are currently in - there's plenty of wishy - washy stuff in there, stuff I would be embarrassed to claim as 'achievements'. Still, if you are desperate. 15 wishy-washy things per year and not a mention of Swift Ali or the wasted money, the lack of a helpful response from politicians. Its much more valid to catalogue their failures.
 

opticron1

Well-Known Member
I think it is too simplistic to simply blame our shooting organisations for the ludicrous, non-evidence based, knee-jerk reactions we have been submitted to as they do not vote in Parliament, our MP's have far more to answer for.
I agree with you N1mrod, our rather pathetic politicians of every hue just seem to respond to every bit of drivel written on social media and reach out for the populist vote whenever they can. And that highlights one of the biggest problems any shooting organisation has at the present time..... namely that any old clap-trap can be put on line without any truth or verification and before you know it, it's gone "viral" and accepted as truth, with the gullible ready to believe any old tosh and the aforementioned politicians running to catch up to give their "valued" opinions.
The other problem is with the various organisations is that there are plenty of people prepared to moan about the work they do, but these same people never seem to volunteer when it comes around to elections to the various groups and pass on their wisdom! Alastair Mitchell - he of shooting times fame - at least had the balls to stand up and be counted and get elected to BASC, he admits that he doesn't agree with all that BASC do, but he's prepared to stand up and be counted rather than just moaning in the back row. So the next time you disagree with a political stance or an organisational viewpoint, write to your MP/MSP/organisation and say something rather than just grumble away.... believe me, some of the responses you get make it much more interesting and if enough people write/moan in the right places....who knows what'll happen!:D
 

User00025

Well-Known Member
I agree with you N1mrod, our rather pathetic politicians of every hue just seem to respond to every bit of drivel written on social media and reach out for the populist vote whenever they can. And that highlights one of the biggest problems any shooting organisation has at the present time..... namely that any old clap-trap can be put on line without any truth or verification and before you know it, it's gone "viral" and accepted as truth, with the gullible ready to believe any old tosh and the aforementioned politicians running to catch up to give their "valued" opinions.
The other problem is with the various organisations is that there are plenty of people prepared to moan about the work they do, but these same people never seem to volunteer when it comes around to elections to the various groups and pass on their wisdom! Alastair Mitchell - he of shooting times fame - at least had the balls to stand up and be counted and get elected to BASC, he admits that he doesn't agree with all that BASC do, but he's prepared to stand up and be counted rather than just moaning in the back row. So the next time you disagree with a political stance or an organisational viewpoint, write to your MP/MSP/organisation and say something rather than just grumble away.... believe me, some of the responses you get make it much more interesting and if enough people write/moan in the right places....who knows what'll happen!:D

After five letters to my Conservative MP in a Hunting and shooting County F. ALL that's what happens.
 

JTO

Well-Known Member
Changing the name from WAGBI to BASC to bow to political correctness. Should have been ABS, NSA, UKSA or BSA.
 
Last edited:
Top