Training a dog to come stalking with you
- Thread starter French David
- Start date
Another big downside to trying to train a young dog by letting it run with an older, already trained, dog is that they'll both end up on the same commands.
So what happens when, subsequently, you want to work two dogs simultaneously but independently of one another? That can only realistically be done if they were trained independently of one another.
Whichever way you look at it, it's not a good way to train a dog. The "alpha" in the pack has to be you, not its kennelmate.
So what happens when, subsequently, you want to work two dogs simultaneously but independently of one another? That can only realistically be done if they were trained independently of one another.
Whichever way you look at it, it's not a good way to train a dog. The "alpha" in the pack has to be you, not its kennelmate.
The dog should not be taken on a stalk for real unless it has been trained and you can trust your training has got the dog to a level where you can trust it to do everything desired.
I have a 6 month old gwp. I don't take him for a walk, I take him on a training session. I can trust him to walk at heel off leash. Sit when I stop. Stay sitting whilst I open the sticks and fire a shot. Stay whilst I walk away about 100m until I return to him, all with little in the way of verbal commands. I did take him out on his 1st outing last week. I shot 4 deer. I commanded him to find 2 of them. He was steady, remain calm and had no issues. I have fired about 300 shots during training with the .22lr so it's not just by chance. It's like a machine, you have to know the off switch works before starting it. I have his 4 year old mother who is good but I don't give her the role of being his trainer
I have a 6 month old gwp. I don't take him for a walk, I take him on a training session. I can trust him to walk at heel off leash. Sit when I stop. Stay sitting whilst I open the sticks and fire a shot. Stay whilst I walk away about 100m until I return to him, all with little in the way of verbal commands. I did take him out on his 1st outing last week. I shot 4 deer. I commanded him to find 2 of them. He was steady, remain calm and had no issues. I have fired about 300 shots during training with the .22lr so it's not just by chance. It's like a machine, you have to know the off switch works before starting it. I have his 4 year old mother who is good but I don't give her the role of being his trainer
kieran222
Well-Known Member
I think most dogs could be trained to a reasonable standard fairly easily, especially gun dogs. I trained two cockers to track shot deer, they were trained to a standard to be very useful but I know that there are far better trained tracking dogs. My tips would be, go slowly with introduction to the gun, as if you don't get that right nothing else will work. After that I would say concentrate on discipline. That will make stalking with your dog much more enjoyable.
norma 308
Well-Known Member
Just started with the lab who was very immature waited till 16months and concentrated on the basics with just had commands no whistles ect when the time came i simulated stalks with the 22 and shot off sticks at a deer carcase Hidden and let her track up on a lead this was very successful we graduated to no mod then 223 then went for it with good success very pleased i honed the obedience first !
You did the right thing to wait.
Far too many people push a young dog too hard too soon.
norma 308 said Q - "Just started with the lab who was very immature waited till 16months and concentrated on the basics with just had commands no whistles ect when the time came i simulated stalks with the 22 and shot off sticks at a deer carcase Hidden and let her track up on a lead this was very successful we graduated to no mod then 223 then went for it with good success very pleased i honed the obedience first ! "- UQ
That is great to read norma 308. It certainly is the way to do it. Congrats! The Lab and you have a great future together when out hunting.
That is great to read norma 308. It certainly is the way to do it. Congrats! The Lab and you have a great future together when out hunting.
norma 308
Well-Known Member
Another deer for her this am she’s only had one blank outingnorma 308 said Q - "Just started with the lab who was very immature waited till 16months and concentrated on the basics with just had commands no whistles ect when the time came i simulated stalks with the 22 and shot off sticks at a deer carcase Hidden and let her track up on a lead this was very successful we graduated to no mod then 223 then went for it with good success very pleased i honed the obedience first ! "- UQ
That is great to read norma 308. It certainly is the way to do it. Congrats! The Lab and you have a great future together when out hunting.
I went on to take another but I’d put her away by then slowly slowly
Like my bird dogs starting out i never do full days to start it blows they’re brains
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We know a dog will soon pickup ‘bad habits’ easier than ‘good habits.’
But if you have a good stalking dog you really should utilise the fact to teach his successor unless of course he’s not really much good and you hope to not make the same mistakes again!!
Imitation was good idea for most trainee stalkers so why not for the trainee deer dog if the teacher displays the desirable attributes .
Or you can wait for your old dog to retire and have a dogless gap while you school a replacement.
But if you have a good stalking dog you really should utilise the fact to teach his successor unless of course he’s not really much good and you hope to not make the same mistakes again!!
Imitation was good idea for most trainee stalkers so why not for the trainee deer dog if the teacher displays the desirable attributes .
Or you can wait for your old dog to retire and have a dogless gap while you school a replacement.
French David
Well-Known Member
Thank everybody for your comments and recommendations.
Using an older dog, unfortunately won't be my case. My old Korthal died last April. I only got that new pup.
As you have recommended, I did quit a few simulated stalk with her. She did very well.
Used my 17hmr during the last 3 simulated stalk and she stay put next to me and did not react to any shot.
So I took her for her first stalk. I kept her on a long lead attach to me. She did follow me very well, stopped and I stopped, sit, waited. She was good.
Crossing a big field, we must have flushed about 15 hares, she only pull on the last one
.
I think I'll keep her few more time on a long lead. Then goes on the 20m training line.
She was not perfect but she was steady for her first stalk.
I'm confident she will become a great stalking dog.
Here is a little photo of her with her first roe
My only issue was: gralloching a deer in the middle of a field, with the nose of my dog in it, was not helpful
Using an older dog, unfortunately won't be my case. My old Korthal died last April. I only got that new pup.
As you have recommended, I did quit a few simulated stalk with her. She did very well.
Used my 17hmr during the last 3 simulated stalk and she stay put next to me and did not react to any shot.
So I took her for her first stalk. I kept her on a long lead attach to me. She did follow me very well, stopped and I stopped, sit, waited. She was good.
Crossing a big field, we must have flushed about 15 hares, she only pull on the last one
.I think I'll keep her few more time on a long lead. Then goes on the 20m training line.
She was not perfect but she was steady for her first stalk.
I'm confident she will become a great stalking dog.
Here is a little photo of her with her first roe
My only issue was: gralloching a deer in the middle of a field, with the nose of my dog in it, was not helpful
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WirehairedKiwi
Member
Basic obedience is paramount. If your dog has a rock solid sit, heel, recall etc then you've done most of the work. When my dog was a young pup I was constantly running away from him to keep him on his toes, and then as he gets bigger I try catch him slipping up and turn the other way on walks when he gets distracted by something or stops paying attention to me. He always keeps track of where I am now, even when we're in the thick stuff.
An old school training method I've seen used is to get a deer skin and drag it around and leave it on the other end of your garden or a field with a piece of venison or a treat on top. Walk back another way (so you don't poison the scent trail) and, providing your dog didn't watch the whole thing, let them off see how they respond to the scent. Any pointing and trailing should be rewarded with lots of praise. You'll get a good idea of their drive and instinct from that exercise. Repeat at higher levels of difficulty and reward the behaviour you want them to repeat.
you can go further and the next time you harvest an animal, cut out their anal glands. Freeze them. Make sure your wife is out, then pop them in the blender and make a slurry with a 0.5% saline. You can use this for scent work. I would get your dog indicating and tracking live animals before moving on to blood tracking. You can do a similar thing with blood, either thinning it down with distilled water or adding an anticoagulant like trisodium citrate. If your dog is rangey and you want more of an indicating dog then I would have them on a longline and use that to reinforce their working distance.
But you can achieve a lot by just having an obedient dog with good self control. I think a lot of it is exposure to target species and then reinforcing the behaviours they present. Once they have a good foundation and understand what the two of you are up to in the field, you can start teaching them the specifics of their job and working on particular things that aren't going well. I've had friends that never trained their dog any specific hunting skills, but they were very obedient. After they put their first deer on the deck together it all started clicking in the dogs mind. Canids have been pursuing cervids for millennia so it's not like you're trying to teach them to do backflips, the hard part is training them out of things like pursuit or whining when you don't want them to.
An old school training method I've seen used is to get a deer skin and drag it around and leave it on the other end of your garden or a field with a piece of venison or a treat on top. Walk back another way (so you don't poison the scent trail) and, providing your dog didn't watch the whole thing, let them off see how they respond to the scent. Any pointing and trailing should be rewarded with lots of praise. You'll get a good idea of their drive and instinct from that exercise. Repeat at higher levels of difficulty and reward the behaviour you want them to repeat.
you can go further and the next time you harvest an animal, cut out their anal glands. Freeze them. Make sure your wife is out, then pop them in the blender and make a slurry with a 0.5% saline. You can use this for scent work. I would get your dog indicating and tracking live animals before moving on to blood tracking. You can do a similar thing with blood, either thinning it down with distilled water or adding an anticoagulant like trisodium citrate. If your dog is rangey and you want more of an indicating dog then I would have them on a longline and use that to reinforce their working distance.
But you can achieve a lot by just having an obedient dog with good self control. I think a lot of it is exposure to target species and then reinforcing the behaviours they present. Once they have a good foundation and understand what the two of you are up to in the field, you can start teaching them the specifics of their job and working on particular things that aren't going well. I've had friends that never trained their dog any specific hunting skills, but they were very obedient. After they put their first deer on the deck together it all started clicking in the dogs mind. Canids have been pursuing cervids for millennia so it's not like you're trying to teach them to do backflips, the hard part is training them out of things like pursuit or whining when you don't want them to.
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