Vintage Winchester Scope identification

[halftrackman]

Could anybody identify this old Winchester Rifle scope, its marked Winchester Arms Co, 1917 with serial number and government Crows foot (see photos) has very fine cross hairs and they adjust via the knurled rings, there's no markings about its magnification. I assume it fits into adjustable mounts as well similar to the Winchester A5 series of scope.
Have trolled the internet but can't find anything so wondered if anybody on here could identify it for me.

 

[Sinistral]

Pics, and a PDF of the pics to follow (only 5 attachments allowed).

 

[halftrackman]

Hi Sinistral
Thanks for the response and photos, I have seen the Winchester A & B range of scope when searching the web for information, i am just not convinced this is one of those models, this one seems to be of a different design and the Crows foot mark for British Government acceptance throws me somewhat.
It has been mentioned it might be a field gun scope, but it just doesn't appear strong enough for that purpose to me, plus the fact the cross hairs move independently, and normally a field gun Sight would be fitted into an adjustable cradle.
The scope is not mine, it belonged to my shooting mate who passed away awhile back, he had quite a few scopes and sights in his collection, most have been identified like Weaver 330 and Lyman Alaskan and others, his widow has been selling them but this one is the mystery scope!! I am not expert on scopes so rely on other peoples knowledge, would look the part on a period rifle if you could find the adjustable mounts to suit it.
Cheers

 

[Sinistral]

If you click on the lower link you'll find a series of references to the Winchester Model A (A5) telescopic sight, and its use in WW1 by the US, British, and Canadian forces. Another source from this website shows a statement of production from Winchester for the suppy of 5,500 P14 rifles and 3,200 telescopic sights (type unspecified) supplied under military contracts to the UK government during 1914-18.
Registering as a borrower on this website, and trying a few practice searches would probably give you the answer. I'm not an expert on early optics or military history, but use internet archives a lot for my hobby which is where I came in. This threw up thousands of results, so I just followed a couple which looked promising. The search argument used is displayed in the URL, and you can tailor it within the command line. Boolean searches don't seem to work too well on the Wayback Machine, but the site has a comprehensive help section.

Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free & Borrowable Texts, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine

archive.org

U.S. Marine Corps scout-sniper : World War II and Korea : Senich, Peter R : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

x, 230 p. : 29 cm

archive.org

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Field gun sight.

 

[Sinistral]

Field gun sight.

Post in thread 'Newby to the forum'

Feb 21, 2025

Welcome to the site. What clay shooting do you shoot? If a sporting layout, more of open' chokes would be fine, if a Trap lay out then most like a tighter patterned choke, also accepted is to shoot bottom barrel first.

BC.

Yes started sporting again after many years, luckily theres a shooting ground nearby so i dont have to travel too far, although prices have gone up considerably since i last did any clay shooting, i am retired now so i have to watch the pennies.
The shotguns a late model Lanber and had both chokes seized in the barrel but i got them out without too much...

• halftrackman

• 

Ah. I didn't realise the the OP and yourself knew each other well.
Okay. Perhaps you can show us all an example?

 

[halftrackman]

Hi Peter
I didn't realise it was you until the penny dropped, I just cant see this Scope being for a field gun, I think its just too small and fragile to take the stresses involved, it would have to be a pea shooter of a field gun and i dont think they had stuff the small in WW1.
Going to seach through a few links that sinistral has mentioned and see if I can find anything relating to Winchester scopes, I know he collected scopes and sights but dont think for a minute he would have bought anything that wasn't rifle related, he was very particular about adding to his collection

 

[Corvid]

Just dug this out it was on a 22 Bsa sportsman 5 I bought in the seventies not sure what model it is

 

[halftrackman]

I would say this is one of the Winchester model scopes either the A or more likely B series scopes from around the WW1 period, I think its the magnification that identify the model, but stand to be corrected on that, while trying to find info on the scope pictured above I came across scope pictures like yours, think these were made for a few years so possibly a later model, not sure, have a trawl on the we'd under Winchester A and B scopes you should find the answer.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

I didn't realise it was you until the penny dropped, I just cant see this Scope being for a field gun, I think its just too small and fragile to take the stresses involved, it would have to be a pea shooter of a field gun and i dont think they had stuff the small in WW1.
Going to seach through a few links that sinistral has mentioned and see if I can find anything relating to Winchester scopes, I know he collected scopes and sights but dont think for a minute he would have bought anything that wasn't rifle related, he was very particular about adding to his collection

Hi Ian,

I still maintain that the scope is for a gun of some description and fits into a cradle to hold it firmly, I’m happy to be corrected but so far no one has come up with a firm definition of its use.

It’s quite possible that your mate Mike acquired it with something that he wanted.

I’ve seen the scope somewhere before but can’t put my finger on it, perhaps I’ve seen one for sale in the past.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Could it possibly be an artillery theodolite ?

 

[halftrackman]

yes, I've looked into that, seems to be more likely than a artillery sight, its way too fragile for that purpose, but I still dont understand why the fine cross hairs are individually adjustable.

 

[Fosbery Holster]

Could it possibly be an artillery theodolite ?

@halftrackman.

Well I’ve had your photos on an American forum under the Winchester heading for a week and even though it’s had almost 400 views and a few replies nobody has commented anything positive as to its identity.

It’s one of those mysterious conundrums that eventually will be solved, how long that takes is anyone’s guess.

 

[halftrackman]

Yes I think your probably correct, if will put it down to another one of life's mysteries.