Voluntary Annual Assessment - Poll

[Eddie P]

I expect he meant diameter.
Trying to place shots in a 2" circumference circle at 100 yards would be a rather extreme test, imo.

I got that, so assumed radius or diameter.
I presumed diameter.

 

[finnbear270]

"I am starting to think most of the refusal to do things like this that would actually put rumours to bed once and for all (even if only for a yr) is more to do with people not wanting to embarrass themself or perhaps been shown they may not be quite the long range deer sniper they make out/think they are"

Free range Rob, Seen demo's of this at the Arran range ... an ARV crew at one , & another chap went back to the vehicle for a few more rounds .... A good laugh when Pepsi ran down to bark at the score.

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Yes meant diameter, not circumference!

Completely brain fail on my behalf!

The target on the last page is correct with all the rings so if in doubt have a look at that rather than my muddled description of what I mean!

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Corrected from the initial post:

Gold
Five shots within 2" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" diameter circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.

 

[finnbear270]

And what grade for shooting thesen int’ foot?

 

[VSS]

And what grade for shooting thesen int’ foot?

See @Buckaroo8 's thread for that.

 

[Kalahari]

Corrected from the initial post:

Gold
Five shots within 2" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" diameter circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.

This is all very well, but take someone like me I won't ever see 70 again, but still practice on the range at least once a month to keep my skills up but getting prone from standing with a sung rifle and then getting my shots off in the time maybe a bit more difficlut and the big question is why the time limit. If I can't get organised and take a clear safe shot before the deer wanders off, thats it the deer has wandered off. It will be there another day. I just wonder if rushing to get the shot off isn't one of the principal causes of poor shot placement.

David.

 

[willie_gunn]

I just wonder if rushing to get the shot off isn't one of the principal causes of poor shot placement.

David.

 

[GGG]

Baloney!
There are enough organisations peddling their own agendas trying to outdo each other at the average stalkers expense thank you.

 

[timbrayford]

Corrected from the initial post:

Gold
Five shots within 2" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" diameter circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" diameter circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" diameter circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.

I'd be happy to do the whole lot off sticks and leave all that grovelling around on the ground stuff to younger people

 

[Free range rob]

I’ve actually done a times test, it was just a bit of fun at the time, but I found knowing the clock was ticking really put more pressure on than any of the actual marksman ship test ever has.

 

[25 Sharps]

Good Evening All,


Following recent debate around deer stalking qualifications on various threads here I am curious to see peoples opinions on a voluntary annual assessment to demonstrate continued competency of practical marksmanship.

The assessment would offer several 'levels' to allow for 'grading' a candidates ability.

The assessment would be shot with three zeroing targets per candidate, one for each section of the assessment.

Gold
Five shots within 2" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" circumference circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.


The assessment can be shot up to twice if the candidate wished, with the higher grading of the two being the final result for that day.

The idea behind the design of the assessment being to demonstrate precision with the first target, then ability to cope under pressure with the latter two; building an appropriate position, making a good shot, then placing a follow up shot from that position within a reasonable time frame.

The bronze standard is done with the view it should roughly match a DSC One pass standard of marksmanship.


Would you take part in an annual assessment like this if it was for a very menial fee (£5-10 range fee?) which included sign off and proof of level obtained?

I am interested to hear peoples thoughts!


Ben

I reckon I’ve shot 3 deer off a bipod, there wasn’t a time limit either.

 

[25 Sharps]

Uhhhh not really - that was why it was suggested as a voluntary assessment, as far as I am concerned do what you like, this would in no way influence what you can or can't do while stalking, but I would hope as a stalking community we would be concerned enough with deer welfare to self reflect and see competency checks as a helpful way of ensuring we can make clean kills when in that situation stalking?

The problem with voluntary assessments is they become mandatory. Look at the way DSC1 and 2 have gone!

 

[25 Sharps]

I have more rules than most in my life due to my career, I've realised they prevent problems and accidents, rather than being problems themselves like they first appear.

For myself the ability to demonstrate I am maintaining my abilities and therefore are mitigating any possible issues to a landowner is invaluable, plus if I do drop in standard one year I am then aware further effort/practice/training is required to ensure I am up to the job!

These are things I wouldn't be able to do and wouldn't necessarily realise without an assessment and regularly taking it.

Ben

Out of interest what do you do for a living?

 

[Brave Echo Niner]

Out of interest what do you do for a living?

PM'D you

 

[25 Sharps]

Good Evening All,


Following recent debate around deer stalking qualifications on various threads here I am curious to see peoples opinions on a voluntary annual assessment to demonstrate continued competency of practical marksmanship.

The assessment would offer several 'levels' to allow for 'grading' a candidates ability.

The assessment would be shot with three zeroing targets per candidate, one for each section of the assessment.

Gold
Five shots within 2" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit.
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 2" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Silver
Five shots within 3" circumference circle, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 3" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Bronze
Five shots within 4" circumference circle around the bull, no time limit (centred on bull).
Two shots off sticks at 100M inside a 5" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).
Two shots prone at 100M inside a 4" circumference circle around the bull, total of 60 seconds to build position and take both shots (rifle starts slung on shoulder).

Ungraded
Candidate was unable to meet one or more of the criteria for Bronze, more practice/tuition is recommended.


The assessment can be shot up to twice if the candidate wished, with the higher grading of the two being the final result for that day.

The idea behind the design of the assessment being to demonstrate precision with the first target, then ability to cope under pressure with the latter two; building an appropriate position, making a good shot, then placing a follow up shot from that position within a reasonable time frame.

The bronze standard is done with the view it should roughly match a DSC One pass standard of marksmanship.


Would you take part in an annual assessment like this if it was for a very menial fee (£5-10 range fee?) which included sign off and proof of level obtained?

I am interested to hear peoples thoughts!


Ben

There are genuinely people who can shoot paper very well and go to rat sh*t once there is a real live animal in front, possibly staring back at them making eye contact, so the test is a moot point.

On the flip side there are those who can shoot very accurately at animals and deliver a clean kill, virtually every time, who just can’t group on paper.

Positional shooting with a time limit is taken from the competition circuit and is pointless, yes there is pressure to take a shot on deer but if you don’t feel comfortable you just don’t take the shot, it’s as simple as that. Those that take risky shots will continue to do so whether they have a certificate or not. Plenty of people out there who would meet your ‘gold’ grade who will risk injuring an animal.

Finally why have different grades?

The 3-4” at 100 is perfectly sufficient for a broad side deer, if that is centred around the correct point of aim it will kill the deer. If somebody who can only attain this level of accuracy sticks purely to those shots, no issue at all.

So, is the idea of the grades that you will get an endorsement of your certificate on how far away you can shoot deer? If so how will this be policed?

The very idea of having grades just shows the idea has come from someone of a competitive nature. There should be a minimum and that is it.

Ultimately, we need to be killing more deer, yes this needs to be done as humanely as possible but making it more difficult is most definitely not the way forward.

 

[.222roebuck]

And the requirement for a proven trained tracking dog , plus first aid, comms , quad operator blah blah blah

It’s coming ! And the idiots will support it too

 

[stubear]

The point being that if you have to take a accuracy test to shoot one species of animal, you should take a relevant test to shoot others be they deer, rabbits or rats.

Steady on - they’ll have us required to sit a certificate of competence to buy a fly swatter next!

 

[Husky]

Steady on - they’ll have us required to sit a certificate of competence to buy a fly swatter next!

Plants are now considered to be sentient so that will be another test to take before you cull the grass with your lawn mower

 

[Free range rob]

Plants are now considered to be sentient so that will be another test to take before you cull the grass with your lawn mower

Rightly so, all that grass getting cut by non professional folk doing it the wrong way leaving all that poorly cut grass to go into the worm food chain…..