What happens next?

Turnips

Well-Known Member
I hope this post is okay: I wanted to consult the combined grey matter for advice on what I should do next, and hopefully get a shove in the right direction from some of the more experienced stalkers on here.

For those not familiar with my story so far: I've completed my DSC1, have a FAC with a pending variation for 308, and have been going out with a mentor (at the behest of my local police force). I do not have any permissions for deer and I won't be looking for any or a syndicate place, for a little while - unless they come with a mentor! My variation is sat on hold waiting for supporting documents for my good reason, these would be invoices for paid stalking which must be on ground that has been cleared for the territorial restrictions on calibre. My mentor does not have ground that has been cleared and shoots on an open certificate, while he used to guide professionally he is retired and is understandably unwilling to get his land cleared. While this has thrown a slight delay with my variation - I will still be going stalking with him using his rifle. He has been an absolute gent and I am forever in his debt for (a.) planting the seed with me ten years ago and (b.) offering to take me out and mentor me onto the larger calibres and introduce me to stalking.

With all that in mind, I am looking for recommendations for some guided stalking, and ideally, also for an AW who has land which has been cleared in the North of England to do my DSC2 and prep with. I am not sure if the AW list is different depending on if you do it through BASC/BDS/etc, so I haven't paid for the course material through any provider yet. I am happy to travel a few hours for the right guide, but obviously the closer the better for my DSC2. I know there are a few threads out there and I have read them, but so much of stalking is word of mouth and reputation - I would rather ask the question again myself. Just to add here that I am of course happy to pay the going rate, but I am not looking for the higher costs involved with taking medal heads etc. My interest (and pocket depth, unfortunately...) is not trophy hunting, it is deer management and responsible culling.

Gralloching I think is the area where I need the most practice. If somebody has come up with a way to repeatedly gralloch the same deer then please let me know 😅 I'm not sure my wife is up for me taking six months off work to volunteer as a ghillies assistant, as much fun as that would be!
 
With all due respect, forget about DSC2 until you've got a few more deer under your belt.

Get plenty of experience on paid stalks, and keep your eye open for a small permission of your own - even if it's just foxing initially.

For gralloching, I can't recommend highly enough the one day course run by @flyingfisherman. You get the opportunity to gralloch multiple deer of three different species using a variety of techniques. A certificate of attendance at the end of the course helps show your FEO that you're committed.
 
Hi turnips how about joining A1 Decoys syndicate it gives you good reason and instant ground availability ( probably some has been passed for 308 ) couldn’t you ask for an open ticket at first application? Some forces are doing this
atb monty
 
Is John Robinson near you he has a good rep as people on hear with testify and will probably come up with his contact details
 
Hi turnips how about joining A1 Decoys syndicate it gives you good reason and instant ground availability ( probably some has been passed for 308 ) couldn’t you ask for an open ticket at first application? Some forces are doing this
atb monty

I already have an open FAC but my local constabulary have decided that it will have the territorial restriction applied to the centrefire when I add one to it.

I have seen the A1 syndicate, but I have seen a lot more negative press than positive which makes me wonder if my money would be better spent with reputable guides instead. Are you a member?
 
Hi turnips how about joining A1 Decoys syndicate it gives you good reason and instant ground availability ( probably some has been passed for 308 ) couldn’t you ask for an open ticket at first application? Some forces are doing this
atb monty
You mean the syndicate that booted off of here for actively advertising land he had no right to stalk?
 
I already have an open FAC but my local constabulary have decided that it will have the territorial restriction applied to the centrefire when I add one to it.

I have seen the A1 syndicate, but I have seen a lot more negative press than positive which makes me wonder if my money would be better spent with reputable guides instead. Are you a member?
It would!

As above forget the dsc2 until you have dealt with a few deer start to finish, which is the next step. If you’re lucky enough to find some land then on your own ground, if not then as guided staking.

If you have an open FAC it’s open, what is it currently open for? If it has any territorial restriction it is closed.
 
It would!

As above forget the dsc2 until you have dealt with a few deer start to finish, which is the next step. If you’re lucky enough to find some land then on your own ground, if not then as guided staking.

If you have an open FAC it’s open, what is it currently open for? If it has any territorial restriction it is closed.
Thanks. DSC2 is the long term goal, the immediate is to learn the practical skills required, especially around gralloching.

My current FAC is open for both rimfire rifles, can’t remember the exact term but for vermin on any land which I have permission to shoot over. I have not yet been granted a centrefire, but my FEO says it will have the territorial restriction applied to it where the land must be cleared for the calibre by the chief of police for that area.
 
Thanks. DSC2 is the long term goal, the immediate is to learn the practical skills required, especially around gralloching.

My current FAC is open for both rimfire rifles, can’t remember the exact term but for vermin on any land which I have permission to shoot over. I have not yet been granted a centrefire, but my FEO says it will have the territorial restriction applied to it where the land must be cleared for the calibre by the chief of police for that area.
So closed then. Silly that they will allow an open condition for a rimfire but closed for CF, both will kill!

Corinium rifles were doing gralloching experience days a while ago, on park culls from memory, not sure if they still are.
 
So closer then. Silly that they will allow an open condition for a rimfire but closed for CF, both will kill!
Exactly, especially since I have had open for the last seven years and put thousands of rounds through the rifles in that time, and have been mentored and done my DSC1…
 
So closed then. Silly that they will allow an open condition for a rimfire but closed for CF, both will kill!

Corinium rifles were doing gralloching experience days a while ago, on park culls from memory, not sure if they still are.
A CF is just a tad more dangerous than a rimfire and yes I know a rimfire is dangerous as well.
 
Depends how you define dangerous, they carry their energy further and drop slower that’s about it.

A safe shot is a safe shot so if you can be trusted to make that with a rimfire (for 7 years!) then surely you can be trusted with a CF?
As the danger area extends you have a lot more to think about
 
I hope this post is okay: I wanted to consult the combined grey matter for advice on what I should do next, and hopefully get a shove in the right direction from some of the more experienced stalkers on here.

For those not familiar with my story so far: I've completed my DSC1, have a FAC with a pending variation for 308, and have been going out with a mentor (at the behest of my local police force). I do not have any permissions for deer and I won't be looking for any or a syndicate place, for a little while - unless they come with a mentor! My variation is sat on hold waiting for supporting documents for my good reason, these would be invoices for paid stalking which must be on ground that has been cleared for the territorial restrictions on calibre. My mentor does not have ground that has been cleared and shoots on an open certificate, while he used to guide professionally he is retired and is understandably unwilling to get his land cleared. While this has thrown a slight delay with my variation - I will still be going stalking with him using his rifle. He has been an absolute gent and I am forever in his debt for (a.) planting the seed with me ten years ago and (b.) offering to take me out and mentor me onto the larger calibres and introduce me to stalking.

With all that in mind, I am looking for recommendations for some guided stalking, and ideally, also for an AW who has land which has been cleared in the North of England to do my DSC2 and prep with. I am not sure if the AW list is different depending on if you do it through BASC/BDS/etc, so I haven't paid for the course material through any provider yet. I am happy to travel a few hours for the right guide, but obviously the closer the better for my DSC2. I know there are a few threads out there and I have read them, but so much of stalking is word of mouth and reputation - I would rather ask the question again myself. Just to add here that I am of course happy to pay the going rate, but I am not looking for the higher costs involved with taking medal heads etc. My interest (and pocket depth, unfortunately...) is not trophy hunting, it is deer management and responsible culling.

Gralloching I think is the area where I need the most practice. If somebody has come up with a way to repeatedly gralloch the same deer then please let me know 😅 I'm not sure my wife is up for me taking six months off work to volunteer as a ghillies assistant, as much fun as that would be!
Why is your mentor unwilling to get the ground cleared by an FEO? Have you checked to see if it’s already on the database?
If he / she gets it cleared then so long as they have an open ticket then it will make zero difference as they can decide what calibre to use - it’s only those with a restricted cert that can’t.

I had this when I took my FEO out. One of my farms is signed off for 6.5 calibre and I sometimes use my 308 in there because I can (open ticket) but his ticket was closed so for him to shoot with me, using my rifle, I had to take the 6.5 instead.

Bonkers rule as it assumes that there is a difference in risk to the public by increasing bullet calibre by 1.22mm even though both have similar ME, MV and range . If I wanted to use a 45/70 on it then that would be inherently safer than a 308 or even a 243 given it’s lethal range, but with a restricted license I wouldn’t be able to.

Having the land certified just means that it’s been deemed safe for newer shooters and that certain limits are applied for public safety - the FEO should really do a field walk with you but most don’t afaik.

Would be worth having another chat with your mentor to see what can be done.
 
So closed then. Silly that they will allow an open condition for a rimfire but closed for CF, both will kill!

Corinium rifles were doing gralloching experience days a while ago, on park culls from memory, not sure if they still are.
This is a throw back to the old mentor thing. You mentor can only assess you up to the calibre type of the rifle they are using, so if it’s a rimmie, then that is what they can assess you on.
I fell into exactly the same issue, but back in my day that meant I couldn’t shoot my centrefire rifles alone until I got a mentor for cf!
Issue was soon sorted tho via a friend at the gun club and I was soon out stalking on my own, albeit with a restricted license and on certified ground.

Maybe a local SD member could take you under their wing for a few months to help you clear the CF mentee issue??
 
This is a throw back to the old mentor thing. You mentor can only assess you up to the calibre type of the rifle they are using, so if it’s a rimmie, then that is what they can assess you on.
I fell into exactly the same issue, but back in my day that meant I couldn’t shoot my centrefire rifles alone until I got a mentor for cf!
Issue was soon sorted tho via a friend at the gun club and I was soon out stalking on my own, albeit with a restricted license and on certified ground.

Maybe a local SD member could take you under their wing for a few months to help you clear the CF mentee issue??
I would get it for a new shooter, the OP is not one of those.
 
As the danger area extends you have a lot more to think about
I don’t think you do, all you have to think about is putting the bullet into a backstop that will absorb it.

The fact the danger area extends is moot, if you are shooting correctly into a backstop. Or are you saying you don’t worry about backstop with rimfires that can kill people out to a mile?
 
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