Women in Shooting

[Conor O'Gorman]

Agree in the main however the sole metric is certificate numbers not an actual survey which would evidence the true data hopefully!
We all seem to agree that clay shooting attracts the most non white males so perhaps BASC should approach CPSA to ask its member clubs for figures and then ask all its own members for real figures of who uses their weapons in their social circle!
Any spending of money should be tempered by the potential outcomes one of which could be removal of exemption for non certified persons to shoot!
Being careful what you wish for is the theme!
If I was funding this in any way I would hope that more research into younger shooters would be done

It seems you did not read my last reply to you? Nobody is forcing licenses on anyone. Nobody is calling for changes in law. The OP was pointing to a BASC article on our work hosting events to encourage more women into shooting and so are many others. That is not going to result in changes in law. As regards younger people, BASC and others do a lot of work around that also - again something I posted earlier but perhaps you have not read yet.

 

[tim@tcs]

It seems you did not read my last reply to you? Nobody is forcing licenses on anyone. Nobody is calling for changes in law. The OP was pointing to a BASC article on our work hosting events to encourage more women into shooting and so are many others. That is not going to result in changes in law. As regards younger people, BASC and others do a lot of work around that also - again something I posted earlier but perhaps you have not read yet.

I didn’t say anyone was forcing licenses on anyone!
I said that if you rely solely on licensing returns for your data then you miss all of those who shoot under exemptions.
I also said that data would be more accurate if taken from the clubs and shooters themselves!
I did say that pointing out the inaccurate statistics would be an open door for which the civil servants and college of policing could then push against to create something that isn’t needed nor wanted!
For once you have fallen into the trap that you often claim of those whose views are different from yours!
I’m all for encouraging participation in the sports we love but a realistic view needs to take into account that often some sports are just often more attractive to a particular set of people or gender.
I don’t see many mixed or all male netball, softball or synchronised swimming teams. I’m not saying that they don’t exist just that they aren’t particularly visible
I haven’t seen many all female ice hockey teams but both male and female rugby and hockey teams exist as do many others.
The best way I feel to attract more into the sports would be to catch them at secondary school and get it accepted as an organised PE lesson, it’s been done in the past and needs encouraging. Less targeting for sex or ethnicity and more for keenness and willingness to learn.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Time to update your vehicle sticker:


K

 

[Camdig]

QUOTE="ShootyBang, post: 2871720, member: 21526"]
It is far, far bigger than that. If 50% of the *voting* population are unfamiliar with firearms, hostile to blokish gun culture, and generally led to be afraid of anything to do with firearms, what is the likelihood you get favourable legislation on firearms issues? Or positive change in government policy, police enforcement, etc? Look past the end of your nose here: it is in all of our collective interests to have more women in shooting. Since BASC are the most significant representative body on shooting issues--as far as police and government are concerned, this is absolutely the case--it is their job to think about the sport & the community beyond parochial interests and many election cycles into the future. I cannot see how having more women hurts the rest of our position in shooting?

I don't get the angst here.
[/QUOTE]

The angst isn't against more woman taking part in country pursuits its the agenda of the above mentioned in my post you refer too.

 

[Conor O'Gorman]

I didn’t say anyone was forcing licenses on anyone!
I said that if you rely solely on licensing returns for your data then you miss all of those who shoot under exemptions.
I also said that data would be more accurate if taken from the clubs and shooters themselves!
I did say that pointing out the inaccurate statistics would be an open door for which the civil servants and college of policing could then push against to create something that isn’t needed nor wanted!
For once you have fallen into the trap that you often claim of those whose views are different from yours!
I’m all for encouraging participation in the sports we love but a realistic view needs to take into account that often some sports are just often more attractive to a particular set of people or gender.
I don’t see many mixed or all male netball, softball or synchronised swimming teams. I’m not saying that they don’t exist just that they aren’t particularly visible
I haven’t seen many all female ice hockey teams but both male and female rugby and hockey teams exist as do many others.
The best way I feel to attract more into the sports would be to catch them at secondary school and get it accepted as an organised PE lesson, it’s been done in the past and needs encouraging. Less targeting for sex or ethnicity and more for keenness and willingness to learn.

I have no problem with different viewpoints - it happens daily! I do have a problem with assertions that I perceive as incorrect - perhaps you did not intend them to be so, but just to be clear here are 3 of the assertions you have made:

To force a change amongst a section of society that considers shooting to be casually enjoyed rather than having to jump through the hoops of licensing would either require removal of the exemption for non licence/certificate holders from licensing to be allowed to shoot!

Both of my sons shoot casually, sometimes not even annually, why should legal exemptions be removed forcing them to license? Some of my syndicate have daughters shooting on the same basis. Forcing licenses on them would make them give it up.

I wouldn’t say it’s a major concern as it’s not my money but if they lobby to force more certification then they will lose members who don’t have certs and don’t need them!

You can understand why I might therefore want to make the point that nobody is forcing licenses on anyone and nobody is calling for changes in law. The OP was pointing to a BASC article on our work hosting events to encourage more women into shooting and so are many others. That is not going to result in changes in law.

Also, again you are talking about young people when I replied earlier on the work we are doing on that also.

 

[tim@tcs]

Again it’s a possible unintentional consequence of bringing DEI into sport!
The figures need to be challenged and if found incorrect as representative of persons involved in shooting, which we all know it is then BASC should challenge the assumption and ask the shooter for his or her real numbers and celebrate the fact that we don’t need DEI to change our sports.

You intimate that it’s not a consequence that could happen but life experiences say otherwise.
I bid for a contract as a single handed supplier of services to TfL. I had everything the contract required apart from employing a female or minority!
I asked for my tender response score and I was beaten by a larger company that cost twice as much but employed females!
That’s London ratepayers and national taxpayers money being wasted because of DEI!
TfL gets massive grants from central government so they are complicit in this waste
Never underestimate the devious behaviour of the civil servant!

 

[Camdig]

Again it’s a possible unintentional consequence of bringing DEI into sport!
The figures need to be challenged and if found incorrect as representative of persons involved in shooting, which we all know it is then BASC should challenge the assumption and ask the shooter for his or her real numbers and celebrate the fact that we don’t need DEI to change our sports.

You intimate that it’s not a consequence that could happen but life experiences say otherwise.
I bid for a contract as a single handed supplier of services to TfL. I had everything the contract required apart from employing a female or minority!
I asked for my tender response score and I was beaten by a larger company that cost twice as much but employed females!
That’s London ratepayers and national taxpayers money being wasted because of DEI!
TfL gets massive grants from central government so they are complicit in this waste
Never underestimate the devious behaviour of the civil servant!

Totally off subject but similar to what you describe, 22 year old white man was advised after leaving university he should put his sex down as non binary to help with the job application process, the lads father wasn't impressed as its basically lying.
Another older lad worked in film and stage props was told pretty much if you want an interview you will need to change your sex to non binary.
I wish BASC was more representative of minority coursing groups a way back when it mattered.
Anyway me and misses away to shoot doos this afternoon.

 

[artschool]

what a car crash of a thread.

If certain types of people are not interested in going shooting then I cannot see how offering them freebies is going to make a difference.

shooting is in my view extremely accessible because air rifles can be shot in back gardens and cost next to nothing. I imagine a large proportion of us started out using them.

I would be interested in hearing Conor's view on the Marvel cinematic universe and how will that is going?

 

[T.eddie]

I don't understand what some people seem to be afraid of here?

Anything to encourage someone to join in/understand / accept shooting is a win

Thank you @Girl_with_a_gun for sharing your real world experience of this very topic

It baffles me how something positive can be derailed in such a ridiculous manner

 

[Pete1774]

In July 2023, the Home Office released its annual statistics on shotgun and firearm certification in England and Wales, and the facts were plain to see. Only six per cent were female between April 2022 and March 2023, of the 516,500 people who held a shotgun or firearm at that time. This is a figure we must tackle head-on as a shooting community. It is an issue that BASC has been addressing for several years and we have recently revitalised our approach.

Click the link below for more information

Redressing the balance

BASC Ladies Shooting events were rebranded to Women in Shooting events to modernise our language and align shooting with other sports.

basc.org.uk

 

[Klenchblaize]

Why shouldn’t Organisations such as BASC and the NRA (UK) get with the program and invest in a set of rainbow hued insignia flags to flutter throughout Pride Week at Camp Bisley (see what I did there!) and the former’s HQ?

Many SD members and no doubt those that object to a way of life that involves shooting and killing animals, will very likely seek to call this out as a sinical stunt and “woke-washing” at it’s most blatant, but you know what they say about publicity.

K

 

[Mike L]

BASC is doing something……. Let’s bring out the complaints

BASC isn’t doing something……… let’s bring out the complaints!!

No need for more women on here, bloody place is full of old women

 

[tim@tcs]

It baffles me how something positive can be derailed in such a ridiculous manner

Not derailed but questioned as to the outcome!
Equality of opportunity exists
Equality of outcomes is a false notion that requires some fantasy level playing field!

Anything to encourage someone to join in/understand / accept shooting is a win

100% agree, BASC should be securing the sports future through investment in the youth of this nation.

Only six per cent were female between April 2022 and March 2023, of the 516,500 people who held a shotgun or firearm at that time. This is a figure we must tackle head-on as a shooting community

using the “we must tackle” slogan is pushing equality of outcomes and if the only way to level the playing field is to make the numbers even out. Now try forcing people to jump through the licensing hoop when they can legally shoot under exemption and it won’t work. The logical but awful outcome of equality is to reduce the certificate holders to 5% of existing numbers and then we match and you have equality!
Leave the politicking alone and stick to encouraging the young shots who have a lifetime ahead of them regardless of gender!

 

[Stalker62]

Leave the politicking alone and stick to encouraging the young shots who have a lifetime ahead of them regardless of gender!

 

[T.eddie]

Not derailed but questioned as to the outcome!
Equality of opportunity exists
Equality of outcomes is a false notion that requires some fantasy level playing field!

100% agree, BASC should be securing the sports future through investment in the youth of this nation.

using the “we must tackle” slogan is pushing equality of outcomes and if the only way to level the playing field is to make the numbers even out. Now try forcing people to jump through the licensing hoop when they can legally shoot under exemption and it won’t work. The logical but awful outcome of equality is to reduce the certificate holders to 5% of existing numbers and then we match and you have equality!
Leave the politicking alone and stick to encouraging the young shots who have a lifetime ahead of them regardless of gender!

I would assume fairly safely that most young shots would probably be male, the need to directly engage potential female shooters then doesn't go away it's still a need. No one is saying male shooters should miss out. This is a common theme when it comes to any minority group I'm any given thing, the group that is the majority feel the need to "defend" themselves from some perceived fear

More people shooting is a good thing, that is the crux of this thread

 

[McKenzie]

View attachment 348893

You went get very far if you hit nails like that!

 

[tim@tcs]

I would assume fairly safely that most young shots would probably be male, the need to directly engage potential female shooters then doesn't go away it's still a need. No one is saying male shooters should miss out. This is a common theme when it comes to any minority group I'm any given thing, the group that is the majority feel the need to "defend" themselves from some perceived fear

More people shooting is a good thing, that is the crux of this thread

This is part of the problem, assuming numbers. We are always lectured by the organisations about empirical evidence yet here again is nothing but assumptions.
We have on our pheasant syndicate two young brothers who share a peg with their father but the other guns all have daughters who turn up and beat. They get the chance at our annual farm clay shoot to go free and are encouraged by everyone. I hope to see the day when they wipe their father’s eyes!
I’m not making assumptions these are numbers I see even if a small number, I’m not doing the pollsters trick of attempting to extrapolate these and create talking points.
If it’s really important then a full national survey will need to take place and no doubt quite a few won’t bother!

 

[T.eddie]

This is part of the problem, assuming numbers. We are always lectured by the organisations about empirical evidence yet here again is nothing but assumptions.
We have on our pheasant syndicate two young brothers who share a peg with their father but the other guns all have daughters who turn up and beat. They get the chance at our annual farm clay shoot to go free and are encouraged by everyone. I hope to see the day when they wipe their father’s eyes!
I’m not making assumptions these are numbers I see even if a small number, I’m not doing the pollsters trick of attempting to extrapolate these and create talking points.
If it’s really important then a full national survey will need to take place and no doubt quite a few won’t bother!

Okay that may be the case for your shoot, the club I was part of had no women in it, however looking at either in isolation is not going to paint a very accurate picture

 

[VSS]

I think everyone should ask their wives to read this thread, and comment on the opinions expressed therein.
Report back, when you've recovered.

 

[Pine Marten]

shooting is in my view extremely accessible because air rifles can be shot in back gardens and cost next to nothing. I imagine a large proportion of us started out using them.

Not everyone has a back garden, or parents who will buy them an air rifle when they're young, and even less who can teach them how to use it safely. It's not really like football where you just need a ball. Or a Coke can.