Would anyone be interested in an affordable, UK made induction annealing machine?

[AlexD]

and it turns out that centring the cartridge case consistently in the coil is important for consistent annealing so he will build a case centring mechanism into his annealer design.

I mentioned that I now wind my coils around a TIG welding cup, and the casing neck sits in the cup so every one is in the same place. That is a quick and cheap solution to your problem.
When one switches the coil on, the induced field centres the casing automatically: you can see it happen.

If you want a cheap RF annealer, then I came across this today while looking for parts so I can water cool the coils (using very thin copper tube): 296.66ï¿¡ 30% OFF|2800w Zvs Induction Heater Induction Heating Machine Metal Smelting Furnace High Frequency Welding Metal Quenching Equipment - Power Tool Accessories - AliExpress. £300 for a 2.5KW machine, just turn the power down and add a timer. I could not buy the parts for that price, so they are doing well. I have another project putting ultrasonically tinned titanium liners into old English shotgun barrels, and their 3KW machine would be ideal for that ...

 

[HandB]

I mentioned that I now wind my coils around a TIG welding cup, and the casing neck sits in the cup so every one is in the same place. That is a quick and cheap solution to your problem.
When one switches the coil on, the induced field centres the casing automatically: you can see it happen.

Yes it is interesting, as today I was watching the induction coil as it switched on and the case did move slightly towards the centre of the coil. It didn't quite reach the precise centre but not too bad. I am not sure what mechanism my pal has for centring the case in the coil. Something clever no doubt as he mentioned he wants to deal with different case sizes automatically - I will be curious to see how it pans out.

 

[HandB]

I mentioned that I now wind my coils around a TIG welding cup, and the casing neck sits in the cup so every one is in the same place. That is a quick and cheap solution to your problem.
When one switches the coil on, the induced field centres the casing automatically: you can see it happen.

If you want a cheap RF annealer, then I came across this today while looking for parts so I can water cool the coils (using very thin copper tube): 296.66ï¿¡ 30% OFF|2800w Zvs Induction Heater Induction Heating Machine Metal Smelting Furnace High Frequency Welding Metal Quenching Equipment - Power Tool Accessories - AliExpress. £300 for a 2.5KW machine, just turn the power down and add a timer. I could not buy the parts for that price, so they are doing well. I have another project putting ultrasonically tinned titanium liners into old English shotgun barrels, and their 3KW machine would be ideal for that ...

Thanks well spotted on that Aliexpress induction furnace - the price is really cheap and the shipping cost is not enormous either. As you say presumably Chinese companies don't have to conform the safety standards that we do in Europe so they can cut costs by avoiding certification etc. Am not keen on the health and safety aspects of an exposed coil so my pal is using a drop through design for his annealer in which the induction coil is safely boxed up away from user contact. He knows I can be quite absent minded so he said it will also have a safety interlock so the induction coil can only run when the front door is closed properly and there is a cartridge case in the coil.

 

[AlexD]

Am not keen on the health and safety aspects of an exposed coil

So long as you are not wearing any rings or a watch, the open coil is fine. The confinement is not doing anything to confine the field: if it were, it would get hot and likely melt.

MRI scanners put much larger fields through people, and across a wider range of frequencies.

The only thing one has to be aware of with an open coil, is it is obviously hot. As in bright red glowing hot, until for an instant in time, it is white.

As one uses the coil, it oxidises, causing it to get hotter, oxidise more, and hotter until it fails. Hence my reference to them being a consumable item needing replacement every 400 cases. Also hence my intent on adding water cooling to my machine. Just what you need to initiate any hobby project: high power, high current, mains voltages, lots of heat, and a water pipe ... hopefully with a means to ensure it is not pressurised. The Chinese one seems to have water cooling there already for their incredibly low price.

Klenchblaize's suggestion of using an old coffee maker for the housing is not bad: coffee makers have a water reservoir ...​

BTW: If you are worried about hot things being exposed, don't touch the brass after it leaves the annealer. It stays hot enough to brand someone, for quite a while, unless they might want a permanent Lapua stamp on their fingers.

 

[HandB]

So long as you are not wearing any rings or a watch, the open coil is fine. The confinement is not doing anything: if it were, it would get hot and likely melt.

MRI scanners put much larger fields through people, and across a wider range of frequencies.

The only thing one has to be aware of with an open coil, is it is obviously hot. As in bright red glowing hot.

As one uses the coil, it oxidises, causing it to get hotter and hotter until it fails. Hence my reference to them being a consumable item needing replacement every 400 cases. Also hence my intent on adding water cooling to my machine. Just what you need to initiate any hobby project: high power, high current, mains voltages, lots of heat, and a water pipe ... hopefully with a means to ensure it is not pressurised. The Chinese one seems to have water cooling there already for their incredibly low price.

This is why I don't want an open coil annealing machine: "The only thing one has to be aware of with an open coil, is it is obviously hot. As in bright red glowing hot."

 

[aris]

Here is another home made annealer - some may say over engineered

 

[AlexD]

Thanks Aris,
That answers my question about water cooling the coils: I was worried about the water being a short circuit across the coil (as it flows in, and out, through the cooler and water conducts fairly well).
After seeing that video, I will go ahead and add the water cooling to my annealer. Another £120.

Tech Dregs, the Youtube author, looks like an average tech-ish guy. He produced something that works and enjoyed his time building it. I note his cost is $815, a lot higher than the £300+120 it cost me, but probably representative of what a hobby tech is likely to pay. Differences to his costs and mine:
1. He is buying a lot of stuff on Ebay which adds up with shipping, and many of his parts are much more expensive than buying over Aliexpress.
2. He also spent a lot more time and went through multiple iterations (mine had zero iterations), which burns money in wasted parts and materials.
3. He built the PCB on Veroboard, instead of using JCLPCB (a fantastically cheap PCB maker, with cheap build also). JCLPCB results in professional looking product, Veroboard looks like ... veroboard.
4. Autofeeder is a lot of 3D print, plus £60 for a stepper motor and controller unless one has these laying around.

Tech Dregs says his development parts are not included in the total price. So overall he spent more than the Quick Annealer, and probably more than buying an AMP off the shelf. The difference is Tech Dregs has a monetarised Youtube channel, so his spend might be returned in income if enough of us watch it.

His video is good warning to others going down this road: if you are not a professional engineer that knows how to do things fast and cheap in one shot, then you are likely to spend far more than buying an off the shelf machine from a company that specialises in them. Even if you are a professional engineer, add in the cost of your time and it is the same price as buying a Quick Annealer or AMP.

For those who like to build your own, I will add photos of mine on here after I have added the water cooled coils.

 

[Klenchblaize]

Don’t forget the aperture for:

K

 

[sniper3]

Yup! I'll go for it.

 

[aris]

A bit like when LabRadar came out, it was revolutionary - though it had its own "quirks ". Several years later, and were seeing competing products which cost less and work better, I think we will see the same for annealing soon enough. Quick Anneal is the first salvo, there will be others,

 

[HandB]

If anyone is basedin the USA or has friends/family there then the Annie induction annealing machine looks like good value at $645.40 Fluxeon Induction Heat

 

[AlexD]

Quick Anneal from the UK rep is £1,150 (£958.33 + VAT). Not far off the price of the AMP.
As per the comments above, this price is what one would expect based on the material costs though £300 discount from normal multipliers for the Quick Aneal.

Found a complete water cooling system on Aliexpress, for a PC with two fans, radiator, pump, cooler, for £36, free shipping, plus £24 of extra copper, connectors etc. So £360 for total cost of parts for a home built annealer or $815+ in the case of engineering is not one's bread and butter, e.g. the Youtuber. Based on these material costs and the 25% rule of tech economics, the Quick Anneal and AMP both look like fair prices that are unlikely to come down for an RF annealer unless it is direct from China.

 

[HandB]

Quick Anneal from the UK rep is £1,150 (£958.33 + VAT). Not far off the price of the AMP.
As per the comments above, this price is what one would expect based on the material costs though £300 discount from normal multipliers for the Quick Aneal.

Found a complete water cooling system on Aliexpress, for a PC with two fans, radiator, pump, cooler, for £36, free shipping, plus £24 of extra copper, connectors etc. So £360 for total cost of parts for a home built annealer or $815+ in the case of engineering is not one's bread and butter, e.g. the Youtuber.

Thanks the Quick Anneal looks excellent but £1,150 is well beyond my budget. The Annie annealer is more like the approximate price I'd be willing to pay but they don't seem to have a UK rep so I will wait and see what my pal comes up with.

 

[aris]

Thanks the Quick Anneal looks excellent but £1,150 is well beyond my budget. The Annie annealer is more like the approximate price I'd be willing to pay but they don't seem to have a UK rep so I will wait and see what my pal comes up with.

That Annie annealer looks very "redneck"

may as well buy one of these from amazon



I'm sure someone on YouTube rigged one of these with a timer.

Here we go

 

[AlexD]

Thanks the Quick Anneal looks excellent but £1,150 is well beyond my budget. The Annie annealer is more like the approximate price I'd be willing to pay but they don't seem to have a UK rep so I will wait and see what my pal comes up with.

The Chinese one is £300 with water cooled coils and a timer built in.

 

[HandB]

The Chinese one is £300 with water cooled coils and a timer built in.

Thanks yes that Chinese induction furnace is a brilliant price but I want one where the coil is not exposed and the hot case drops through into a tray without me having to touch it. Something like the design of the Quick Anneal machine but for the Annie annealer price. And UK made if possible.

 

[AlexD]

Thanks the Quick Anneal looks excellent but £1,150 is well beyond my budget. The Annie annealer is more like the approximate price I'd be willing to pay but they don't seem to have a UK rep so I will wait and see what my pal comes up with.

The Annie has open coils, and as Aris pointed out, it looks like something that Wallace made (as in Grommet), so is unlikely to appear in the UK anytime soon.
You say you don't want an open coil but if the coils are water cooled, what is the problem?
Even the Quick Anneal and AMP dispense hot brass, so this is never going to be child safe. Reloading in general is not child safe. In fact, nothing much in a workshop is child safe: not just grinders, lathes and mills but even things that look safe like presses are lethal if used inappropriately. Even a hand file can kill someone (use a big file as a crowbar, or use it without a handle then slip).

BTW: this afternoon I spent 15 minutes making a mumetal jacket for the outside of the water cooled coil to try out when the cooler arrives, as that should intensify the field within the coil by shortening the magnetic path. Ferrites can do the same job. Will see how much it heats up from the losses from its magnetic hysteresis.

The thread is becoming a bit of a PM 1:2 chat, so I will go quiet until my cooler arrives and I post some pictures for anyone else who wants to build an annealer.

 

[HandB]

Yes I will also go quiet now until I have got an action video of the induction annealer to share.

 

[Andy RV]

You may be interested in this, this is how we do it in industry;

http://mecelecdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Defence_Small-Arms-Ammunition-Induction-Annealing-Machine_English.pdf

 

[Liveonce]

You may be interested in this, this is how we do it in industry;

http://mecelecdesign.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Defence_Small-Arms-Ammunition-Induction-Annealing-Machine_English.pdf

nice, two lanes each annealing 140 cases a minute so 280 a minute in total impressive, bet that machine costs a few £