UPDATE: TVP FAC/SGC Renewals

[Essex stalker]

I spoke to someone in Essex last night who has just been issued with a section 7 permit, the FEO has told them that they can hold NON expanding ammunition but any expanding ammunition must be stored with a RFD until his new certificate comes through

 

[Orion]

Are the Police advising that they will pay for any invoices arising from the lodgement of ammunition with the RFD - assuming the renewal application was made in good time?

BTW. Essex were hauled over the coals by HM Inspectorate of Constabulary for issuing S.7 Permits immediately upon receipt of a renewal application irrespective of the time available for processing! At one point they had over 1200 S.7 Permits issued!

https://ukshootingnews.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/hmic-firearms-licensing-thematic-report.pdf

4.92 on page 44.

 

[Essex stalker]

Essex police are currently stating on there website, 40 weeks for a new application and 16 weeks from THE DATE OF EXPIRY OF THE OLD CERTIFICATE for renewals

 

[Orion]

Superb!

Just goes to show that there is something that came out of the recent fees increase - albeit not the expected one!

 

[Lightyear]

Essex police are currently stating on there website, 40 weeks for a new application and 16 weeks from THE DATE OF EXPIRY OF THE OLD CERTIFICATE for renewals

So...If you are a deer stalker or pest controller you will be out of action for 16 weeks then ??? Is that right ?

 

[Essex stalker]

That would be my interpretation, the website also states that there is no point in calling within this period as that only increases their workload and causes further delays

 

[Orion]

Essex police are currently stating on there website, 40 weeks for a new application and 16 weeks from THE DATE OF EXPIRY OF THE OLD CERTIFICATE for renewals

So...If you are a deer stalker or pest controller you will be out of action for 16 weeks then ??? Is that right ?

How so? I read it as they will need your renewal application lodged with them a minimum of 16 weeks prior to the expiry of your existing one in order to process it in time. Would that interfere with anyone's shooting?

 

[Taff]

I spoke to someone in Essex last night who has just been issued with a section 7 permit, the FEO has told them that they can hold NON expanding ammunition but any expanding ammunition must be stored with a RFD until his new certificate comes through

Has anyone actually seen this in writing from a FEO or any police force or is it there interpretation of the law which they Will not put into writing, as they may be wrong.

 

[Essex stalker]

This is taken direct from there service delivery targets page

Essex Police will process the application within the following timescales from the date of receipt of the completed application:

• Grant of a firearm or a shot gun certificate
  *40 weeks
  
  
• Renewal of a firearm or shot gun certificate (including variation to acquire additional firearms)
  16 weeks (from the date of the expiry of the previous certificate). Please note: a temporary permit will be issued which will last for 6 months from the expiry of the old certificate. This will cover the certificate holder during the renewal process.

 

[Lightyear]

How so? I read it as they will need your renewal application lodged with them a minimum of 16 weeks prior to the expiry of your existing one in order to process it in time. Would that interfere with anyone's shooting?

I read it as saying that you will get a section 7 to cover the 16 weeks after your certificate expires. Section 7 doesn't allow you to hold expanding ammunition which you would need to shoot deer.

If they are just saying submit for renewal minimum of 16 weeks before expiry then it would be a non-issue as Essex leave your old certificate with you. However, the wording is "from" not before....If the process goes beyond expiry no more deer stalking etc !

 

[Orion]

This is taken direct from there service delivery targets page

• Renewal of a firearm or shot gun certificate (including variation to acquire additional firearms)
  16 weeks (from the date of the expiry of the previous certificate). Please note: a temporary permit will be issued which will last for 6 months from the expiry of the old certificate. This will cover the certificate holder during the renewal process.

Okay, that full version puts an entirely different slant on it. What an atrocious state of affairs.

Faced with that statement at renewal I'd challenge it via the usual channels - letters to licensing department manager, CC, PCC and MP, in ascending order.

 

[Orion]

I read it as saying that you will get a section 7 to cover the 16 weeks after your certificate expires. Section 7 doesn't allow you to hold expanding ammunition which you would need to shoot deer.

If they are just saying submit for renewal minimum of 16 weeks before expiry then it would be a non-issue as Essex leave your old certificate with you. However, the wording is "from" not before....If the process goes beyond expiry no more deer stalking etc !

Now that I've seen the quote above I agree with you 100%. A terrible situation for those going through the renewal procedure. If D&C with the highest number of FAC & SGC holders in the country can push renewals through in a timely fashion why can't Essex? Is there something we should know about you boys?

 

[Essex stalker]

Some people say it has something to do with the Chief Constables view on people having firearms, I'm lucky I have another couple of years before mine is due for renewal so hopefully it will be sorted out by then

 

[Lightyear]

It's the white socks and stiletto heels !!

I was just about to post the full wording to clarify, but yes it is a very poor statement of the service. Really, they are simply stating that you will cease to pursue the activity for which you provided "good reason" to posses in the first place !!!

Two more years on mine as well...Maybe it will be sorted by then !!!

 

[Pothunter]

Has anyone actually seen this in writing from a FEO or any police force or is it there interpretation of the law which they Will not put into writing, as they may be wrong.

The various relevant bits of the law have been quoted several times above in this thread. And on this occasion, for once, the FEO's interpretation of the law is right.

 

[I. Farticus]

Well, having spoken to TVP again, based on how this thread developed, I have confirmation that I am covered to hold expanding... I had an initial yes, which was then confirmed with a colleague, so I'm happy with that.

Rightly or wrongly, their view is that a Section 7 covers you to hold everything listed on your FAC.

 

[kennyc]

Okay, that full version puts an entirely different slant on it. What an atrocious state of affairs.

Faced with that statement at renewal I'd challenge it via the usual channels - letters to licensing department manager, CC, PCC and MP, in ascending order.

so reading that, regardless of when you put in your application, they will not look at it until your old FAC expires, and then it will take 16 weeks? surely they just doubled their paperwork ? surely thats a typo?

 

[Orion]

so reading that, regardless of when you put in your application, they will not look at it until your old FAC expires, and then it will take 16 weeks? surely they just doubled their paperwork ? surely thats a typo?

I don't think it is. The Essex FLD must be a model of inefficiency! Here's what the HMIC report into firerams licensing said specifically about them:

4.92.
During our fieldwork, we found that one force was issuing temporary permits
immediately upon the receipt of a renewal application, no matter how much in
advance of the certificate renewal date the application was received.
This was said by the force to be due to delays within the licensing department. In
May 2015, the force had in excess of 1,200 temporary permits on issue.
4.93.
While this may be a pragmatic approach to the backlog of work within the
force firearms licensing department, the time taken to go through the
additional process of issuing temporary permits on every occasion makes it an
inefficient way of working. It also means that the review of the suitability of the
certificate holder, which the law requires every five years, is not undertaken
when it should be.
4.94.
We also found that the same force utilised this approach in circumstances
where the renewal application was submitted late. This is in direct
contravention of the Home Office guidance which requires the certificate
holder, in such circumstances, to lodge his or her firearm with a registered
firearms dealer or, in the case of a shotgun, with another certificate holder.
4.95.
Whilethis practice may contravene the Home Office guidance, there is
nothing in law that prevents the force from doing this.
It does contribute, however, to the unacceptable inconsistency in the application of the licensing
process in England and Wales.

You really couldn't make it up!

 

[ndt man]

when you encounter delays that you think are unacceptable contact your local MP or make an appointment to see them at there local surgery or you can send them an email that's what there paid for getting involved in constituents problems . your chief constable does not appreciate getting a letter from your mp It defiantly speeds thing up .

 

[tumbleweed]

I said right from the very start of all the price increases that it would be a shambles and even with the extra cost of renewals etc etc it is a bleedin disgrace the service that we pay for. Just Glad that my renewals are not till 2017, just maybe by then it may be back to a reasonable waiting time But i will not be holding my breath when i start my paperwork with all of the cuts in serving officers.