UPDATE: TVP FAC/SGC Renewals

[I. Farticus]

All in TVP

My FAC & SGC are due for renewal mid-December, so being the good boy that I am submitted the renewal forms back in September.

Speaking the now retired Mike Broadhurst in August, the flood in Kidlington put them back quite a bit - at one point it was 6 months - but I'm pleased say that having just spoken to them, it's now "a few weeks", so they are anticipating getting the new certificates back to me by the end of Jan.

TVP - in their infinite wisdom - force us to return the existing certificates with the renewal/variation forms, but as I pointed out just now, I can't buy any ammo on a photocopy...

My current, and still valid, certificates are therefore heading back in today's post.

In mid-December a Section 7 Licence will be sent to cover me for the kit in my cabinet and will allow me to buy cartridges until the new certificates rock up, so in anticipation I'm going to stock up with centre fire ammo as January could easily morph into February.

I'll report back as this all progresses, but at least it's not as bad as it was, and the moral is you clearly do NOT need to send your current certificates back with the forms

Cheers
iain

 

[Essex stalker]

I don't know how true this is but I have heard that you cant keep expanding ammo on a section 7 licence, might be worth checking this before stock piling too much of it.
If I am wrong I'm sure some one on here will soon tell me

 

[willie_gunn]

All in TVP

My FAC & SGC are due for renewal mid-December, so being the good boy that I am submitted the renewal forms back in September.

Speaking the now retired Mike Broadhurst in August, the flood in Kidlington put them back quite a bit - at one point it was 6 months - but I'm pleased say that having just spoken to them, it's now "a few weeks", so they are anticipating getting the new certificates back to me by the end of Jan.

TVP - in their infinite wisdom - force us to return the existing certificates with the renewal/variation forms, but as I pointed out just now, I can't buy any ammo on a photocopy...

My current, and still valid, certificates are therefore heading back in today's post.

In mid-December a Section 7 Licence will be sent to cover me for the kit in my cabinet and will allow me to buy cartridges until the new certificates rock up, so in anticipation I'm going to stock up with centre fire ammo as January could easily morph into February.

I'll report back as this all progresses, but at least it's not as bad as it was, and the moral is you clearly do NOT need to send your current certificates back with the forms

Cheers
iain

I'm in TVP and I can't recall ever returning my existing FAC/SGC when applying for a renewal or variation; my reasoning being that doing so would mean I am no longer in possession of a valid certificate.

I submitted my renewal around the same time as you, though mine don't expire until the New Year, so I'll be chasing up in week or so and will let you know what I hear

 

[morena]

Taken from BASC site on renewals ETC

What if I experience a delay in renewal?
If you have returned your application for renewal in good time and are experiencing delays whichmay put you in unlawful possession of firearms, shotguns or ammunition when your certificateexpires, then you should ask for a temporary Permit under Section 7 of the Firearms Act 1968. Thiswill allow you to keep and use your firearms and shotguns and also, by virtue of Section 5(2)(a) ofthe Firearms (Amendment) Act 1988, to purchase shotgun ammunition.
Unfortunately this will NOT allow you to possess expanding ammunition if you have any. Thisshould be lodged with a registered firearms dealer until you have your renewed certificate.
Make sure that you complete the form carefully and return it as quickly as possible in the case ofrenewal to give the system a chance to work properly. Give the police reasonable time to issue anew certificate before the expiry date. 10 weeks should allow plenty of time.

morena

 

[Spaniel]

Hi The BASC are wrong reference, Unfortunately this will NOT allow you to possess expanding ammunition if you have any. This should be lodged with a registered firearms dealer until you have your renewed certificate.

I received my section 7 permit last week. At the very bottom of the page it states the calibre of weapons and the amount of ammunition I may hold. The covering letter states I`m not allowed to purchase ammunition, and I must return the section 7 permit within 14 days of receipt of my new FAC / SGC.

Good Hunting to everyone.

 

[VSS]

I wouldn't have sent back the expiring cert if I was you, especially as you submitted your renewal so early.
NWP also ask us to return cert with renewal but I never have - just phone them and say I'm not returning it, but will send a photocopy, and they say "ok, fine ".
I don't give up the old one until I've got the new one in my hand!

 

[Whitebeard]

The actual wording fron the Firearms act 1968 is:

Section 7 (1) Police Permit
A person who has recieved from the cheif officer of police for the area in which he resides a permit for the purpose in the prescribed form, may without holding a certificate under this act, have in his possession a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms of the permit.

BASC are incorrect saying you will not be able to possess expanding ammunition, in fact my interpretation would be that if the "Permit" says you can purchase ammo then you lawfully can.

ian.

 

[Taff]

I think a lot of people misunderstand the wording " possession of a valid certificate" this only applies after the expiry date, it does not mean having it in your possession, otherwise this would make it illegal to not have your cert while stalking or in possession of your guns.
VSS if you live in most areas you may as well send it, as it will be well out of date before your new one arrives, just curious why would you send a photo copy ? They have a scan of your original on the data base.
has anyone ever lodged there expanding ammo ?
Have the police ever prosecuted anyone for having a gun and ammo while awaiting for renewal ?
paranoia still rules on TSD.

 

[Oh6]

Hi The BASC are wrong reference, Unfortunately this will NOT allow you to possess expanding ammunition if you have any. This should be lodged with a registered firearms dealer until you have your renewed certificate.

I received my section 7 permit last week. At the very bottom of the page it states the calibre of weapons and the amount of ammunition I may hold. The covering letter states I`m not allowed to purchase ammunition, and I must return the section 7 permit within 14 days of receipt of my new FAC / SGC.

What are you saying is wrong in BASC's statement?

 

[Taff]

+1 whitehead, you beat me to it, I wonder sometimes if shooters are there worst enemy's , as bad as the service is, we have to work with it.

 

[Whitebeard]

+1 whitehead, you beat me to it, I wonder sometimes if shooters are there worst enemy's , as bad as the service is, we have to work with it.

Whitehead!!

Ian.

 

[Whitebeard]

Oh6,
Did you read the excerpt from the firearms act i reproduced in post 7?

Ian

 

[kennyc]

All in TVP

My FAC & SGC are due for renewal mid-December, so being the good boy that I am submitted the renewal forms back in September.

Speaking the now retired Mike Broadhurst in August, the flood in Kidlington put them back quite a bit - at one point it was 6 months - but I'm pleased say that having just spoken to them, it's now "a few weeks", so they are anticipating getting the new certificates back to me by the end of Jan.

TVP - in their infinite wisdom - force us to return the existing certificates with the renewal/variation forms, but as I pointed out just now, I can't buy any ammo on a photocopy...

My current, and still valid, certificates are therefore heading back in today's post.

In mid-December a Section 7 Licence will be sent to cover me for the kit in my cabinet and will allow me to buy cartridges until the new certificates rock up, so in anticipation I'm going to stock up with centre fire ammo as January could easily morph into February.

I'll report back as this all progresses, but at least it's not as bad as it was, and the moral is you clearly do NOT need to send your current certificates back with the forms

Cheers
iain

my renewal with TVP is due in feb 2016 I recieved the forms around 6 months early and sent them off around a month ago, I didn't send my old FAC, I suspect some confusion here, as the FAC has to be sent in with variations, but the forms say not to send it in on renewal, they do ask for a copy of it though.

 

[PointBlank]

Just got my renewal forms through for Suffolk. They don't want you send anything in just hand the form in to the FEO when they visit

 

[VSS]

I think a lot of people misunderstand the wording " possession of a valid certificate" this only applies after the expiry date, it does not mean having it in your possession, otherwise this would make it illegal to not have your cert while stalking or in possession of your guns.
VSS if you live in most areas you may as well send it, as it will be well out of date before your new one arrives, just curious why would you send a photo copy ? They have a scan of your original on the data base.
has anyone ever lodged there expanding ammo ?
Have the police ever prosecuted anyone for having a gun and ammo while awaiting for renewal ?
paranoia still rules on TSD.

Taff, I send a copy because it lists all my ammo purchased, hopefully as proof of "usage".
To be fair, NWP have always sent me my new certs before expiry of the old ones.

 

[old man]

FWIW, I kept my old certificate and my section 7 clearly showed no allowances under the ammunition heading so I placed it with my RFD.

 

[Norrie1956]

The actual wording fron the Firearms act 1968 is:

Section 7 (1) Police Permit
A person who has recieved from the cheif officer of police for the area in which he resides a permit for the purpose in the prescribed form, may without holding a certificate under this act, have in his possession a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms of the permit.

BASC are incorrect saying you will not be able to possess expanding ammunition, in fact my interpretation would be that if the "Permit" says you can purchase ammo then you lawfully can.

ian.

Agreed Whitebeard...I had my renewal done a couple of months ago, and had to get a section 7, it allowed me to hold ammo... I actually bought some once or twice, but it wasnt marked up on the ticket, there is nowhere to do that...BUT, the shop did mark up the register and informed my FEO...
Att is a photo of the reverse of my FAC Section 7...they also supplied a covering letter stating that it covered me to hold and use my rifles...

 

[Oh6]

Oh6, Did you read the excerpt from the firearms act i reproduced in post 7?

Yes.

The problem is that Section 7 Temporary Permits can only authorise possession of Section 1 & 2 Firearms and Ammunition.
However Expanding Ammunition is covered under Section 5 of the Act, so a Section 7 Temporary Permit cannot authorise possession.

The actual wording fron the Firearms act 1968 is:

Section 7 (1) Police Permit
A person who has recieved from the cheif officer of police for the area in which he resides a permit for the purpose in the prescribed form, may without holding a certificate under this act, have in his possession a firearm and ammunition in accordance with the terms of the permit.

BASC are incorrect saying you will not be able to possess expanding ammunition, in fact my interpretation would be that if the "Permit" says you can purchase ammo then you lawfully can.

 

[Whitebeard]

I understand what you are saying oh6 but Section 7(1) applies to the issue of a police permit to possess firearms and ammunition without a certificate, it does not categorise a type of firearm or ammunition that Section 1, 2 and 5 do.
Also Section 7(1) does not differentiate between Section 1, 2 or 5 firearms or ammunition in the wording but allows the possession of firearms and ammunition under the terms of the permit.
Surely if the permit is written in such a way to allow possession of Section 5 expanding ammunition then it would be lawful.

ian.

 

[Oh6]

I understand what you are saying oh6 but Section 7(1) applies to the issue of a police permit to possess firearms and ammunition without a certificate, it does not categorise a type of firearm or ammunition that Section 1, 2 and 5 do.
Also Section 7(1) does not differentiate between Section 1, 2 or 5 firearms or ammunition in the wording but allows the possession of firearms and ammunition under the terms of the permit.

Here is the latest Home Office "Guide on Firearms Licensing Law":

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/417199/Guidance_on_Firearms_Licensing_Law_v13.pdf​

Take a read of section 6.17:

6.17 -Section 7 of the 1968 Act enables a chief officer of police to issue to a person a permit authorising them to possess a firearm or ammunition to which section 1 of the 1968 Act applies, or a shotgun​

So a Section 7 Temporary permit cannot authorise possession of Section 5 Ammunition (i.e. expanding) or Firearms.

Surely if the permit is written in such a way to allow possession of Section 5 expanding ammunition then it would be lawful.

No, because the police can't make up the law.