6.5x55 vs 6.5 Creedmoor

MrTrigger

Active Member
Hi peeps,

I just wanted to get some feedback as to the 6.5x55 vs the 6.5 Creedmoor. I am looking to get a 6.5 calibre rifle, the Creedmoor appeals to me but from what I have seen (maybe looking in the wrong places) brass and heads seem to be of little choice as compared to the 6.5x55? Lapua have announced that they are going to start making the Creedmoor brass at the beginning of next year. Creedmoor rifles appear to be available but was wondering if people are maybe necking down brass or getting around reloading for it in a different way. I have been advised to go with the 6.5x55 Swede which I am inclined to do as all the equipment seems readily available here and there is a huge selection. I believe the Creedmoor has a longer reach than the Swede but currently I am only shooting out to 600yds, will the Swede struggle to get beyond this point or maybe the bullet drop is excessive?

Any thoughts and advise would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance...

MrTrigger
 
you could do worse than check out a 6.5 x 47 lap, accuracy wise , has won a lot of 300/600 target competions, cases can be reloaded time after time, and was designed from the start to be a super accurate round that used longer bullets with very good balistics . There is one on my wishlist!
 
Thanks plumber01, I will definitely give that a look into, I have done some reading up about it and basically the article said exactly what you have said above. I like that the cases are very re-usable won't be buring through brass as frequently with that!
 
Mr Trigger,

I regularly shoot the Swede out to 1000m with 139/140 bullets. Availability of cases and reloading kit is excellent. Accuracy is spot on. It is also my "go-to" hunting round at the moment.

Cant comment on the Creedmoor, although when I was shooting out at Orion the chap next to me had a Ruger Precision and there was no difference between that and my sporting rifle in 6.5 x 55

DT
 
For field use, there is little between the cartridges in performance despite the 6.5X55mm having a larger case and powder charge, but as an elderly design loaded by ammunition manufacturers to under 50,000 psi (if US) or 55,000 psi (if European) compared to ~57,000 psi for the Creedmoor.

For sporting shooting in a magazine rifle (but not for single-shot target shooting), the 3-inch plus length 6.5X55 needs a long action model; the Creedmoor at 2.820" SAAMI COAL is geared to the more common short action models and is ideally suited to the AI magazine favoured by 'Tactical' / McQueens and US PRS competitors in their custom builds.

With handloads, they generally give similar performance, although the 6.5X55 can be loaded to give a bit higher performance in a strong modern rifle. (Not in historic arms though!)

The Creedmoor is only 8 years old and its popularity is growing at a terrific rate. As well as Hornady, nearly all US ammunition suppliers other than Remington have now adopted it. Winchester lists a single 140gn match loading, not seen here. It is a versatile, easy to handload number and all major American rifle manufacturers other than Remington (no doubt in deference to protecting its same performance but waning 260 Rem cartridge) have now adopted it as has (Japanese) Howa which also supplies Mossberg and Weatherby with barreled actions. If looking for a 6.5mm Creedmoor from Tikka/Sako and most other mainstream European arms makers - forget it for (on past form) the next 20 years or so, despite desperate pleas from American 'tactical' shooters for the new T3X CTR and its upcoming quasi military spin-off in the chambering. (Italian) Sabatti is one of the few European riflemakers to have recognised the opportunity with its STR challenger to the Ruger Precision Rifle - now becoming available in the UK.

Hornady has struggled to meet domestic demand, and exporting brass and loaded ammo to Europe has taken a back seat until recently. Early Hornady brass had more than a few QC issues. Although better now, it's still not strong enough to run with higher pressures than the factory 57,000 psi loadings (in a cartridge designed for and registered at 62,000 psi MAP with SAAMI). Load it to 60,000 psi or so and the brass is scrap after a couple or three firings due to expanded case-head / primer pockets.

Things are changing fast now. Norma also makes the brass (superb quality!) and Lapua will have a superstrength small primer / flash-hole version a la 6mm BR and 6.5X47L here within the next three or four months. Nosler sells good quality 'Custom Brass', but it is almost certainly rebadged Norma production. Three other firms have or are introducing Creedmoor brass - Peterson Cartridge Co. (Viking Arms has it on order for the UK market.); Alpha Munitions; Kinetic Industries. RUAG Ammotech through its Norma subsidiary is loading 130gn VLD match ammunition under contract to US ammunition supplier Prime Ammunition, but frustratingly seems to have no ambition to load it for any European customers (or maybe its Prime contract specifies an exclusive supply arrangement).

By this time next year, handloaders at any rate will have no supply issues.

As to whether one would choose 6.5X47 Lapua, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmoor, or 6.5X55 - they're all superb performers capable of great precision and starting that discussion up will soon see a huge multi-post thread as in 'What is the best 7mm cartridge?' and similar friendly arguments. My personal views for what they're worth is that 260 Rem is quietly dying although the number of rifles in existence will keep it going for decades; 6.5X55mm will return to its past relative obscurity in the USA but go on forever in continental Europe and likely here too; 6.5X47L's future ended the day that Lapua announced 6.5mm Creedmoor small brass is on its way - the x47L isn't chambered by any mass manufacturer rifle manufacturer even after 10 years and a small primer Creedmoor is in effect an 'improved' 6.5X47L that offers either more performance (or a better bet IMO) same performance at saner pressures.
 
Wow, thanks Dorsettaff and Laurie.

Wow Laurie, thats some serious research you have done there! Thanks for sharing with me!
 
the projectile choice is identical between the 55 and the creedmoor , they use the same

cases will become more available for the creedmoor for sure

my personal choice would be the creedmoor (and is as a matter of fact)
 
My choice would be the 55 as it is common as muck and tried and tested.
Reloads of course, but any rifle that gives parallel performance for lower pressures is better in my books.
As for accuracy, the 55 is as accurate as hell and besides a deer isn't going to notice 0.25 MOA difference in accuracy.
It pays to remember that the American market for rifles is saturated with calibers and choice. Marketing an old reliable caliber is harder than dreaming up something new that does exactly the same thing. In the USA's free market economy manufactures have to stay ahead in marketing or sink.
 
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My choice would be the 55 as it is common as muck and tried and tested.
Reloads of course, but any rifle that gives parallel performance for lower pressures is better in my books.
As for accuracy, the 55 is as accurate as hell and besides a deer isn't going to notice 0.25 MOA difference in accuracy.

it doesn't give parallel performance with lower pressure , if I matched the 55 performance with my creed the pressure would be largely similar.
 
it doesn't give parallel performance with lower pressure , if I matched the 55 performance with my creed the pressure would be largely similar.

You have quite a generous definition for "largely similar".

According to some Laurie Holland, 6.5x55 has 6.5% more case capacity than Creedmoor:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2100

According to Vihtavuori data (from older print manual, not present in current online manual) 1% increase in case capacity results in 0.7% decrease in MV and 4% decrease in peak pressure. Of course these are approximations etc.

From same source, 1% increase in powder charge results in 0.8% increase in MV and 2% increase in peak pressure.

So using this info w/o further consideration, increasing case capacity 6.5% would lower the peak pressure 26% and MV 4.6%. To regain the MV you'd need to bump up the powder charge 5.7% which would increase the peak pressure 11.4%. You'd end up with same MV and 15% less peak pressure.
 
With regards to the Lapua cases... could Lapua changing the primer pocket alone lead to a longer reloading life for the bullet, I know they make amazing brass, from what I have read though the pressures in the Creedmoor wear these casings down at a really rapid rate...
 
According to some Laurie Holland

Given that Laurie Holland lives in York, and that we have had chapter and verse from a member of SD called "Laurie", also from York, we might have hit already the motherload of data...

Just a thought...

Laurie, thanks for your input. All things considered, I'm sticking with my 6.5x55mm, and am going to change the slots for 6.5x47 and .308 and replace with something more interesting. .338 Federal is looking interesting
 
You have quite a generous definition for "largely similar".

According to some Laurie Holland, 6.5x55 has 6.5% more case capacity than Creedmoor:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2100

According to Vihtavuori data (from older print manual, not present in current online manual) 1% increase in case capacity results in 0.7% decrease in MV and 4% decrease in peak pressure. Of course these are approximations etc.

From same source, 1% increase in powder charge results in 0.8% increase in MV and 2% increase in peak pressure.

So using this info w/o further consideration, increasing case capacity 6.5% would lower the peak pressure 26% and MV 4.6%. To regain the MV you'd need to bump up the powder charge 5.7% which would increase the peak pressure 11.4%. You'd end up with same MV and 15% less peak pressure.

ha ha ha ha , excellent bite
 
You have quite a generous definition for "largely similar".

According to some Laurie Holland, 6.5x55 has 6.5% more case capacity than Creedmoor:

http://www.targetshooter.co.uk/?p=2100

According to Vihtavuori data (from older print manual, not present in current online manual) 1% increase in case capacity results in 0.7% decrease in MV and 4% decrease in peak pressure. Of course these are approximations etc.

From same source, 1% increase in powder charge results in 0.8% increase in MV and 2% increase in peak pressure.

So using this info w/o further consideration, increasing case capacity 6.5% would lower the peak pressure 26% and MV 4.6%. To regain the MV you'd need to bump up the powder charge 5.7% which would increase the peak pressure 11.4%. You'd end up with same MV and 15% less peak pressure.


You have read that COMPLETELY wrongly and come to conclusions that are 180-deg out. If correct, a .300 Winchester Magnum which has nearly 50% greater case capacity than that of .308 Win would have around 40% lower MVs than the latter. Real life suggests a rather different outcome! Also, please reread your Viht manual - a case capacity increase without any other other change decreases pressures.

What you're saying only applies if the same bullet and powder grade / charge weight are transferred to the larger capacity case without any change to the charge to suit the new circumstances. That is to take a 165gn bullet and say 45gn powder from the 308 and transfer them to the 300 Win Mag.

What does happen as case capacity increases is that the cartridge becomes less thermodynamically efficient if everything else is 'equal' - ie less of the powder charge's energy content is converted to useful work in moving the bullet faster. Eventually when the combination reaches a true 'over bore capacity' condition, the extra powder provides no extra velocity at all - hence not many .50BMG/.30 wildcats around, nor even many .300 Weatherby Magnums.

The rule of thumb is that in a given calibre a given % increase in case capacity provides an MV increase of that % divided by four all other things being equal. The 'other things' are barrel length and characteristics, bullet weight and characteristics, peak chamber pressure. So ... if a fireformed Winchester .300 Win Mag case has 48% greater capacity than the equivalent Lapua .308 Win hull, and the 308 produces 2,800 fps with an XYZ gn weight ABC model bullet from a PQ-inches length barrel, the 48% capacity increase will power that bullet to a 12% higher MV if both are loaded to the 308's 60,000 psi allowed maximum pressure. Or in this example, an extra 336 fps = 3,136 fps. However ......... the .300 Win Mag is rated at 65,000 psi MAP by SAAMI, so it gets a bit higher MVs in practice. This and any other such example also assumes the correct burning rate propellant is used, so the 308's Viht N140 would be replaced by N560, N165, or maybe even N170 to achieve the cartridge's full allowed pressure rating.

When it comes to the 6.5X55mm v modern higher pressure rated cartridges, life becomes complicated because we are trying to compare a larger capacity and powder charge but low pressure model against a same calibre smaller but higher allowed pressure design. Moreover we have four (yes four) different 6.5X55 peak pressures:

US SAAMI .............. 46,000 CUP (Copper Units of Pressure, a now obsolete measurement system propably equal to around 50,000 psi using the modern Piezo crystal transducer or strain gauge methods)

Actual US sporting ammunition loadings ............ under 40,000 psi on the basis of actual MVs produced.

Actual Swedish military loadings ............. ~45,000 psi for early 144gn RNFMJ ammunitions, nearer 50,000 psi for the later 139gn FMJBT 'spitzer' HV round and proof tested to 68,000 psi. Lapua 139gn Scenar Match is loaded in line with the early lower figure because it is likely to be fired in 100 year old M1896 service rifles and similar.

CIP (European regulatory and standards body) for 6.5X55mm SKAN (for modern firearms in good condition) .............. 55,000 psi. Possibly what Norma and Sako load their sporting ammo to, but I can't be sure as I've never tested any.

There is a fifth possible level - handloads using modern Lapua brass in a strong modern rifle and up to 60,000 psi (but at your own risk!). I have had 2,999 fps from the cartridge with a 139gn Lapua Scenar and no primer pocket or extraction issues in a 30-inch barrel F-Class rifle. I wouldn't ever use or recommend this level, and my long-range match loading was 2,815 fps from the 140gn Berger Target LRBT over Viht N165 which is right on Viht's 55,000 psi SKAN loading and likely produces a little less.

That's what the 260 Rem and 6.5mm Creedmoor will give at their high 50,000s approaching 60,000 psi maxima, and will be feasible for the latter if not a bit better when Lapua small primer brass arrives.
 
Given that Laurie Holland lives in York, and that we have had chapter and verse from a member of SD called "Laurie", also from York, we might have hit already the motherload of data...

Just a thought...

Laurie, thanks for your input. All things considered, I'm sticking with my 6.5x55mm, and am going to change the slots for 6.5x47 and .308 and replace with something more interesting. .338 Federal is looking interesting

Yes he and I are one and the same. I wouldn't blame you for sticking with the 6.5X55 - an excellent sporting and single-shot match rifle cartridge, and one of my long-time favourites having used it for 30 plus years off and on. (I love the 7X57mm marginally more, but I can't comment on their relative merits on deer as I'm a paper-puncher.) There is certainly no sense or value to anyone with an existing good 6.5X55mm in replacing it with a 6.5X47L, 6.5 Creedmoor, or 260 Rem and to a canny handloader potential downsides other than saving a few ounces of powder in a year.

'Tactical' / McQueens / Practical Rifle (and in the US, PRS or Sniper Comp) shooters are better served by the smaller trio.

If looking to choose one of the three smaller models, I'd now go for the Creedmoor ahead of the 260 or 6.5X47L fopr various reasons which I won't bore you with.
 
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