I'm sure the 204 will kill deer most of the time. It all depends if you can ethically accept the few where it falls short. For me my minimum cal for roe is 6.5 as I like the margin for error this gives me. I don't see why we need to constantly try to reinvent the wheel when the deer will be the ones to suffer
.204
- Thread starter cowsmart
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shall i engage?mmm go on then.. .204 is roe deer legal and will kill a roe deer just as effectively as a 6.5 girly gun... If you hit the vitals with any calibre it is not going far, there are a bunch on here that don't like anything outside their comfort zone. In the USA the .223 kills more pigs than any other calibre yet over here its deemed unsuitable, the list of comparables is endless... A deer shot badly with any calibre will suffer, its the soft fleshy bit behind the trigger thats at fault, not the gun. You can say the same about .243 on reds, just legal with the bigger bullets, but some estates won't allow them... whats your minimum calibre for reds ? 9.3?
Bigboab29
Well-Known Member
You ask a question on here and crikey they have some round about ways of answering, I don't think the op really cares about anyone's views on wether or not the 204 is suitable if he wanted to know that I'm sure he would've asked 'do you think the 204 is suitable for roe deer' but he didn't he asked 'does anyone know of a 50gr 20 cal bullet' so if you don't know and you don't have a relevant comment why bother posting, I'm very interested in a 50gr 20 cal bullet as well but it would be nice to get the relevant replys without having to wade through the elitist crap chipped in
The relevant reply was given early on.
NO. THERE IS NO .20 CAL SP BULLET AVAILABLE.
But if someone asks a question about something you think is a really bad idea, it is not -I respectfully submit- elitist cr*p to point this out.
THE REASON THERE IS NO SUCH BULLET AVAILABLE IS THAT THE CALIBRE ISN'T SUITABLE FOR DEER EVEN IF IT FITS UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF SCOTTISH LAW
Now Cowsmart has made it clear that he couldn't care less about what anyone else thinks, and that's his prerogative, but I daresay he won't be posting a thread on here about the first deer he loses after shooting it with a varmint bullet.
To be honest I dont see many threads on deer folks have lost...how many have you lost Mr Gain?
And its only your opinion that the calibre isn't suitable..Any other Scottish laws you disapprove of?
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Without any doubt the smaller calibres will kill things, no one is doubting that, however a larger bullet with more energy gives greater ability to cause fatal tissue injury from more angles an importantly under less than ideal conditions. I accept that the 223 will kill many pigs abroad but does that make it the best or the most humane solution, of course not. One thing that is more important is how many are wounded which I suspect is probably a lot. The main reason that the 223 is in such widespread use is the fashion to use the AR platform more than anything. Hey guess what they have then gone on to develop more potent cartridges that are more suitable for the job like the 300 blackout. I suppose I don't get the desire to shoot deer with the smallest possible round. Why do you think that the 204 will be so much better than the usual calibres? Just so you don't lie awake worrying, the calibre I would go out with after red are either 308 or 7mm RM. saying that I would use the 6.5 if that is what I had in my hand at the time. Like I said it is up to you if you think it's a good idea or not but personally I would use the biggest calibre that can be shot accurately rather than the smallest that can be made legal
so your saying the .22 centre fires should not be used on deer either? smallest being what? 6mm (.243) 6.5, or .270? ( I have a .270 sat in the cabinet as well) ...The biggest calibre that can be shot accurately..which is? and not to shoot the smallest that can be made legal...so your condemning .243 for reds? make your mind up.... condemning .22 centre fires for munties and CWDs? so in your ideal world all small deer must be 6mm or larger and 6.5 or above for reds/sika/fallow?
edit..as I said before the .204 with a 50gr bullet sends more energy in ft/lbs than a .222 or .223 wit a 50gr bullet
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bobjs
Well-Known Member
BULLET 20CAL 45GR SP
SOFT POINT BULLETS
HORNADY
highest bullet weight i can find here in the u.k. supplied via brownells,
bob. a 20 cal,user
also some more info here,
20-Caliber "Boutique" Bullet-Makers
If you're not satisfied with factory offerings, a handful of talented bulletsmiths offer custom 20-Caliber projectiles in a variety of weights and configurations. For shooters looking for very long or very heavy bullets, customs may be the way to go:
Don Unmussig Bullets:. Don manufactures 30, 35, 40, 45, 48, 50, 52, 55, and 57 grain .204 caliber HP bullets. The 30 and 35 grainers are Flat Base. Don offers both Flat Base and Boat Tail designs in the 40-55 grain weight range. Don's 57 grainer, a 15-ogive VLD, is probably the highest BC 20-Caliber bullet you can buy. Don also manufactures 30gr and 33gr Round Nose Semi Point (RNSP) for the Remington 5MM Rimfire cartridge in HP or lead-tipped. These bullets can also be used in centerfire cartridges. Custom weights available. Contact: (804) 320-1165. No web site.
No Name Bullets:. Michael Liechty is the new owner of No Name Bullets. He is currently the only 20 Caliber bullet-maker specializing in match-grade projectiles. Phone: (949) 933-0362.
Schroeder Bullets: Steve Schroeder makes 5MM Remington Rimfire bullets that will work in 20-Caliber centerfire cartridges. In 40gr Steve offers Round Nose Semi-Point (RNSP), FMJ, SP, and HP designs. In 45gr, Steve makes SP and FMJ bullets. Contact: (619) 423-3523. No web site.
SOFT POINT BULLETS
HORNADY
highest bullet weight i can find here in the u.k. supplied via brownells,
bob. a 20 cal,user
also some more info here,
20-Caliber "Boutique" Bullet-Makers
If you're not satisfied with factory offerings, a handful of talented bulletsmiths offer custom 20-Caliber projectiles in a variety of weights and configurations. For shooters looking for very long or very heavy bullets, customs may be the way to go:
Don Unmussig Bullets:. Don manufactures 30, 35, 40, 45, 48, 50, 52, 55, and 57 grain .204 caliber HP bullets. The 30 and 35 grainers are Flat Base. Don offers both Flat Base and Boat Tail designs in the 40-55 grain weight range. Don's 57 grainer, a 15-ogive VLD, is probably the highest BC 20-Caliber bullet you can buy. Don also manufactures 30gr and 33gr Round Nose Semi Point (RNSP) for the Remington 5MM Rimfire cartridge in HP or lead-tipped. These bullets can also be used in centerfire cartridges. Custom weights available. Contact: (804) 320-1165. No web site.
No Name Bullets:. Michael Liechty is the new owner of No Name Bullets. He is currently the only 20 Caliber bullet-maker specializing in match-grade projectiles. Phone: (949) 933-0362.
Schroeder Bullets: Steve Schroeder makes 5MM Remington Rimfire bullets that will work in 20-Caliber centerfire cartridges. In 40gr Steve offers Round Nose Semi-Point (RNSP), FMJ, SP, and HP designs. In 45gr, Steve makes SP and FMJ bullets. Contact: (619) 423-3523. No web site.
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If you read the post I say that MY chosen minimum is my 6.5. I have not said anywhere that this should be what everyone else should do. That is up to them. I have a range of calibres at my disposal and so can choose what I believe is the best tool for the job. For me this means my 17 Remington is a fox capable vermin rifle but my go to fox rifle is a 22/250. It just drops foxes with greater authority. The same goes if I'm after deer, I know my 22/250 will kill small deer legally, but would I choose to take it stalking, no I wouldn't. I would take my 6.5, 308 or 7mm because I can shoot them to the same degree of accuracy yet they deliver far more energy at target and importantly penetrate the vitals more predictably. With regard to the largest calibre that can be shot accurately, this clearly varies between people. I have seen some that can cope with 338 recoil and apply each bullet with precision yet for many (including myself) this is not possible. Therefore for some folk the limit may be the 308 or 243 etc, it really doesn't matter. What is critical though is that the bullet can be delivered precisely and cause sufficient damage to deep seated vital organs every time. This is far more important than calibre fps and ft/lbs. Can the 204 do it? I don't know but ,I really hope it can for the sake of the deer. I guess what I don't understand is why this experiment is necessary, it just seems to be experimenting at the risky end of the spectrum without any tangible reason for doing so. If anyone can enlighten me on what I am missing I would be greatly appreciative.
Lube and Sizing Kit - Lee Precision
wondering if its possible to downsize .224 soft points to .20 using above system or similar? anyone tried the above process for other calibres? if so whats the uniformity like?
wondering if its possible to downsize .224 soft points to .20 using above system or similar? anyone tried the above process for other calibres? if so whats the uniformity like?
Sauer90
Well-Known Member
And the 204 is not a varmint cartridge?
Bigboab29
Well-Known Member
Sauer90
Well-Known Member
Rhetorical question
also says it will do jacketed
The bullet sizing dies are intended to size molded lead bullets. Jacketed bullets can be sized, but it is necessary to use LEE Resizing Lubricant, not Liquid Alox bullet lubricant.
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Bigboab29
Well-Known Member
So your point is??
I know the 204 is a varmint cartridge the same as I know the 22250 is a varmint cartridge. What about it?
All .22 centrefires are varmint rounds, even the .243 and the other 6mm's were developed as a varmint rounds....does not mean they cannot be dual purpose.
The .22 varmint rounds have been around for 60-70 years....the .204 13 years, its not had time for bullet manufacturers to develop a good soft point yet. When pioneers start to use it in earnest and start badgering bullet makers for a 50grSP then I'm sure one will be developed.
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TOMMO.B
Well-Known Member
Interesting i was under the illusion that the .243 was developed in the states for police marksmen to be used in built up areas. less chance of a round bouncing around streets. But i dont know if there was any truth in it.
I'm pretty sure these sizers are only meant for sizing bullets down a few thou. Reducing the diameter by 20 thou is probably going to take more force than a standard Lee press can handle.
Let us know how it goes.
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