.223 primer crimp advice please

[Sheprador1973]

Newbie question

Just bought some once fired 223 brass on here. Turns out they're a mix of stamps with some FC, some Winchester and some WCC99 (which google tells me is Winchester). Anyway, upon inspection all but the Winchester stamped have a thin brass ring around the primer pocket (which google tells me is a primer crimp...had never heard of them). Apparently I need to lose these before brass can be reprimed.

Google tells me (I like google!) that I can ream, swage or maybe just get away with a chamfer tool. But not near 100% confident with any of these options tbh. Any ideas? Really dont want to/can't buy any reloading bits right now so not sure whether to just resell the brass and seek some more without primer crimps.

Adivice much appreciated

 

[Hunter 53]

As Google says you can buy a tool to remove the crimp after removing the primer. I spent the money on a tool not cheap and not very successful I gave the cases away.
Using mixed cases is not a good idea sort them into the same stamps for the best results, you will find unless you are lucky that different stamps shoot to different points of impact. If funds allow buy yourself some new cases it will make life a lot easier.

 

[spandit]

A countersink in a drill can be used with care or the Lee chamfer tool is cheap. FC (Federal) brass is a pain but you only need to do it once.

if you're reloading to save money then don't worry about the nth degree but I generally don't mix cases for each batch.

 

[GGG]

This is becoming more and more of an issue, as increasing amounts of .223 "commercial" brass have the crimping ring which was initially intended as a military requirement.
As you have already identified, you have three real options.
1) Remove the crimp using a dedicated crimp reamer. I have seen people use a chamfer tool, but this does not bottom out in the primer pocket to regulate the cut and can remove too much material.
2) Swage the crimp out using a dedicated tool which can be adjusted to ensure only the crimp is removed from the pocket.
3) Move the brass on, and get some without a crimp.

Although I personally use option 2, it only makes sense if you have a sizeable amount of brass to deal with.
In your circumstances, I would follow Hunter 53's advice and seek alternative commercial brass.

 

[Sheprador1973]

This is becoming more and more of an issue, as increasing amounts of .223 "commercial" brass have the crimping ring which was initially intended as a military requirement.
As you have already identified, you have three real options.
1) Remove the crimp using a dedicated crimp reamer. I have seen people use a chamfer tool, but this does not bottom out in the primer pocket to regulate the cut and can remove too much material.
2) Swage the crimp out using a dedicated tool which can be adjusted to ensure only the crimp is removed from the pocket.
3) Move the brass on, and get some without a crimp.

Although I personally use option 2, it only makes sense if you have a sizeable amount of brass to deal with.
In your circumstances, I would follow Hunter 53's advice and seek alternative commercial brass.

Thanks to all the above.

Think I'll go for option 3. You live & learn!

So has anyone an opinion on what to go for? PPU new brass is cheap and has surprisingly positive user reviews from what I've seen. Or would you recommend another stamp? The bagged up Rem 223 100x once fired look tempting if I can find out that they're minus the primer crimp. Any thoughts?

 

[Druid]

Just wondering why commercial ammo manufacturers are crimping the primer in? As the stated brands are American I was thinking it may be due to the popularity of the AR15 platform in the states? Possibly also related to the different thinking about ammo usage in some quarters, i.e. Preppers with 20,000 rounds hidden away for the end of the civilised world who are not worried about reloading the brass!

 

[Gunner223]

Go and buy some Hornady or Lapua, yes its a little more expensive but you know its good, I've reloaded Hornady 5 times and no props.

 

[enfieldspares]

Just wondering why commercial ammo manufacturers are crimping the primer in? As the stated brands are American I was thinking it may be due to the popularity of the AR15 platform in the states?

That may be the answer and simply leaving the existing machines running "as set up" and simply inputting brass with a non-military headstamp or it may now US law enforcement spec...this crimped primer...ammunition?

 

[PeterH]

Newbie question

Just bought some once fired 223 brass on here.

Were these sold by some one on here stating they had primer crimps? My initial reaction if this was not mentioned on the thread would be a request to return them and ask the seller to refund you if he is man enough.

If that does not come to pass, personally I would regard it as a lesson learnt and resell the cases on here for free with the buyer just paying for postage. I would then buy myself 100 new brass - start with a level playing field - these 100 cases should with care sort you out for at least 1000 shots.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Were these sold by some one on here stating they had primer crimps? My initial reaction if this was not mentioned on the thread would be a request to return them and ask the seller to refund you if he is man enough.

If that does not come to pass, personally I would regard it as a lesson learnt and resell the cases on here for free with the buyer just paying for postage. I would then buy myself 100 new brass - start with a level playing field - these 100 cases should with care sort you out for at least 1000 shots.

Yes. Were bought through the classifieds on here. No mention of mixed head stamps or primer crimps. Was disappointed but I guess some might say I should've asked. As a newbie not sure I want to make a fuss.

So when you say put them up free are they worth absolutrly nothing? Was hoping to redeem some £ if possible (by posting full details of brass for someone who perhaps has swaging/reaming gear already.

i guess new makes sense then. Got to be Hornady/Norma/lapua? Prices are tasty! Assume you get what you pay for?

many thanks

 

[enfieldspares]

OK. You've posted this:

Just bought some once fired 223 brass on here. Turns out they're a mix of stamps with some FC, some Winchester and some WCC99 (which google tells me is Wincheste

So that's Federal and Winchester plus what else exactly and how many of each?

If I search using the "previous forum posts tool" you've responded to this, below, saying you'll have them.

Once fired Remington reloading brass in 223 flavour, 126 pieces. £20 posted

Now in fairness to all perhaps you need to say if this is the brass you have issue with...the mixed headstamps some Federal or some Winchester so not "Remington"...or another seller.

As at the moment it appears that you've bought from a listing that has listed Remington brass yet sold you a mismash of brass.

Which if it isn't so isn't fair to the owner of that listing. And if it is so other possible customers of that owner need to be aware.

 

[Sinistral]

Were these sold by some one on here stating they had primer crimps? My initial reaction if this was not mentioned on the thread would be a request to return them and ask the seller to refund you if he is man enough.

The sale ad said they were Remington brand. Let's be polite, and say the wording was devious. SD can be a channel like any other to unload tat.

Sold: .223 Brass

You need to know how to remove primer crimps properly to avoid gas leakage. All the Lee tools are useless. Most of the once-fired .223/5.56 cases now have crimped primers, but commercial Remington brand or Rel-Com (R-P) does not. "Rem 223" headstamp is crimped, and actually Federal FCC made for Lake City.

If there's a date on the case ("WCC 99" = Winchester Cartridge Company 1999) then they are usually crimped AR15 fodder, no matter what the headstamp is.

If you need genuine Remington non-crimped once-fired I've got hundreds.

 

[enfieldspares]

If you need genuine Remington non-crimped once-fired I've got hundreds.

To the OP. There you go. Sorted!

But to be fair to the owner of the listing in the classifieds it may, of course, not be the source of the OPs "Bassett's Allsorts" mixed bag of brass he's referenciing.

 

[Sheprador1973]

I'm sorry guys. I'm new to all this and don't want to offend or cause any bother. I was trying to ascertain what best to do and what to expect from posts in the classifieds. I'll let you guys decide I guess.

That was the ad in question. I recieved 126 well packaged cartridges. Of these 76 were WCC99 with crimps, 20 were FD with crimps and 30 were Winchester without crimps.

Perfectly happy to be told I was wrong and have deliberately not 'complained' or referenced the seller.

Thanks for your advice

 

[enfieldspares]

Perfectly happy to be told I was wrong and have deliberately not 'complained' or referenced the seller.

No. You are not wrong. The listing is not describing what you've received. There's not from your count as single case that is Remington made reloading brass.

Once fired Remington reloading brass in 223 flavour, 126 pieces. £20 posted

You've been sold anything but what any person buying from that description, regardless of how long they've been in this game, would have reasonably expected to receive. I would ask for a refund and a full refund at that.

The wording is clear it says "Remington reloading brass in .223" and not "reloading brass in .223 Remington". It is fundamentally misleading and I'd even say as such, if the owner of the listing can't explain that he hasn't made an honest and genuine mistake in his word order in the description possibly dishonest.

At the very least I would think it only fair for the owner of the listing to offer you a refund AND to pay the postage back from you to him.

For although it maybe an unfortunate consequence of the word order the Remington reloading brass is NOT the same as reloading brass in .223 Remington.

The word order in the first infers it is Remington MADE brass. The word order in the second that it is simply brass in 223 Remington CALIBRE and, indeed, doesn't infer in any way that it's even all the same make.

I would certainly ask the seller to supply you with what you have contracted to buy which is REMINGTON RELOADING BRASS in .223 calibre...and not Federal brass nor Winchester brass or anybody else's make but Remington, in .223 Remington.

 

[takbok]

I bought a .223 case length gauge from the same guy who sold the 126 cases. It wasn't serviceable and I wasn't best pleased with how he handled this. Not much money involved but ended up spending more than if I'd bought a new one.

Sheprador, I've got a range day on 10th June - Will see if I can get hold of some once fired PPU cases.

 

[Muir]

Maybe you should keep these cases, sort them by headstamp, and get familiar with dealing with the crimp. Think of it as a lesson in reloading.

Many really good 223 cases can be had for a song because they are once fired military. I have a couple of five-gallon buckets full that I use in my 223's. A friend uses them in his 20 Practical. I have used a small screwdriver with the edge flats stoned to cut, I have used chamfer-deburring tools, and RCBS primer pocket swage and the Dillon Super Swage 600. All got the job done with varying degrees of difficulty. ~Muir

 

[Hunterjohnb]

AS a suggestion only,why not buy some PPU (very reasonably priced ) or other brand ammo and enjoy firing them. You then have some fire formed brass to start your reloading. Personally I have had no issues with PPU brass through several 308 reloadings. Hope this helps you to decide.

 

[Sheprador1973]

Thank you to everyone who has posted. Not really sure what to make of it all now but tbh I'm not up for contacting the seller right now. On the way home from a wedding that my wife couldn't attend with me as she's been rather ill recently. Only mention as it puts a measly £20 brass purchase into perspective i.e. Not really important at all. What I'm very happy to do is offer the cases to one of those that have posted on this thread free of charge . I'll pay postage. They're no use to me... if they are to you consider it a thank you

 

[spandit]

The Lee chamfer tool is only about £5 and works on the case mouth too. Remember, you only need to do it once - the crimp doesn't grow back!