BBC 4 TONIGHT AT 2100 Hr Hunting Controversy
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.270
Well-Known Member
BBC 4 are showing, Trophy: The Big Game.. at 2100 Hr
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
So far, remarkably so good..... still time though I guess!
Excellent program, although the mentality on the conservationists who would sooner see all the rhino killed in the wild rather then reared on a ranch for commercial sale of the horn, just shows that it has nothing to do with conservation but all to do with hating the idea of rich people benefiting from the animals.
Ian
Ian
If I've ever have seen a program that shows the difference a real shooter, hunter, stalker this was it. Sorry I must go iv'e got to feed my fish in the barrel.I really dispair 
Vulpesvulpes
Well-Known Member
I cried....for the beautiful beasts poached and the beautiful beasts shot. Did you see the prices for breed stock at the auction?
sikamalc
Administrator
I only saw the last part of the programme, so cannot fully comment on the entire content.
However I assume it was mostly shot in SA. Most if not all places in SA are now fenced, and the breeding, auctioning and releasing of game animals is common place. In fact I would go to say that the entire hunting economy revolves around it in SA. Its not everyones cup of tea, but that does not make it wrong. In fact in many ways it has saved wildlife and given it a value, where it would have been wiped out.
Some of these areas you can hunt are massive, 20,000, 30,000 acres and more so it really feels and is a safari. On the other hand there are still wild open concessions you can hunt in other African countries and some of these are tribal lands, unfenced and open. But the price difference can be remarkably higher than any hunt in SA.
I did not see the first part of the Lion hunt in the programme, so it may have been a released Lion. I shall have to try and find the whole programme to watch.
However I assume it was mostly shot in SA. Most if not all places in SA are now fenced, and the breeding, auctioning and releasing of game animals is common place. In fact I would go to say that the entire hunting economy revolves around it in SA. Its not everyones cup of tea, but that does not make it wrong. In fact in many ways it has saved wildlife and given it a value, where it would have been wiped out.
Some of these areas you can hunt are massive, 20,000, 30,000 acres and more so it really feels and is a safari. On the other hand there are still wild open concessions you can hunt in other African countries and some of these are tribal lands, unfenced and open. But the price difference can be remarkably higher than any hunt in SA.
I did not see the first part of the Lion hunt in the programme, so it may have been a released Lion. I shall have to try and find the whole programme to watch.
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
I found this a very interesting program which despite showing a couple of plonkers shooting, aired some difficult subjects and (for the bbc) I felt was pretty balanced.
I have to say this issue of Africa as mentioned by EMcC and VV above is a tricky one, suffice to say it’s not all like that portrayed in the film, there is a big old continent out there with lots of different practices, and is not all the game farms of SA at all, some of it is as wild as it gets!
Also, I was presented with an interesting argument for this canned hunting business recently by a fellow member on here and it made me think.
If anyone is that desperate to shoot a lion (for example), surely better that the animal in question is reared for that purpose, is not part of a family group, who’s absense won’t cause a whole litter/generation of cubs to be killed by a new incoming male etc. And who’s loss won’t impact on the global wild population in any way shape or form.In reality most hunting in South Africa is like this, albeit diluted somewhat, but when fences are introduced, animals have to be restocked, and therefor it’s just a bit more of an extensive plan compared to picking the beast you want in a pen first and having released into a1000 hectare ranch for it to be tracked down and hunted.
Africa isn’t for everyone, but having seen it from the other side, it’s a far more complex issue than just a few of those discussed in the documentary.
I have to say this issue of Africa as mentioned by EMcC and VV above is a tricky one, suffice to say it’s not all like that portrayed in the film, there is a big old continent out there with lots of different practices, and is not all the game farms of SA at all, some of it is as wild as it gets!
Also, I was presented with an interesting argument for this canned hunting business recently by a fellow member on here and it made me think.
If anyone is that desperate to shoot a lion (for example), surely better that the animal in question is reared for that purpose, is not part of a family group, who’s absense won’t cause a whole litter/generation of cubs to be killed by a new incoming male etc. And who’s loss won’t impact on the global wild population in any way shape or form.In reality most hunting in South Africa is like this, albeit diluted somewhat, but when fences are introduced, animals have to be restocked, and therefor it’s just a bit more of an extensive plan compared to picking the beast you want in a pen first and having released into a1000 hectare ranch for it to be tracked down and hunted.
Africa isn’t for everyone, but having seen it from the other side, it’s a far more complex issue than just a few of those discussed in the documentary.
tusker
Well-Known Member
Deerstalker 308, very well put. I have hunted S.A. for plains game and both times we were in a fenced area however you would have to walk all day to find the fence. Outside the fences I have seen very few animals if any.
Namibia is totally different, animals all over the place and were we hunt there are no fences eccept for low stock fences. We never know what we will find from one day to the next.
I would not want to go hunting with a couple of the chaps on the program as they just wanted to kill stuff. I would agree that if canned hunting can help preserve a spiecies then that is good even though I would not like to do it.
Tusker
Namibia is totally different, animals all over the place and were we hunt there are no fences eccept for low stock fences. We never know what we will find from one day to the next.
I would not want to go hunting with a couple of the chaps on the program as they just wanted to kill stuff. I would agree that if canned hunting can help preserve a spiecies then that is good even though I would not like to do it.
Tusker
Bos en Dal Safaris
Well-Known Member
Guys
I have not seen the program but would like to comment on this subject.
I think first of all we as hunters/Shooters should all refrain from using the words "canned hunting" this is the stick that our industry gets beaten with and if we use the term they are winning the fight.
I will not comment on the CBL "captive bred lions" as it is a controversial subject with lots of different emotions and opinions. With regards to plains game hunting as being mentioned above almost all of South Africa is fenced even the E.C where it is commonly advertised as low fenced areas be sure the animals are fenced in. Except for maybe Kudu, Eland and impala which will be able to clear a low fence, all other animals will try and crawl underneath a fence as they are not jumpers. Because of human intervention and activities animals in the "wild" are very few but some species like Kudu, Impala, warthog and duiker can survive in an open area farm land, not in huge numbers but you will find the odd one. It is due to fenced areas that S.A's game numbers have always been good as this is one of our biggest conservation methods.
When you hunt these areas you will not feel that the animals are in a "pen" just ask your outfitter about property size. a 1000ha is a big piece of land especially with our type of vegetation. And the herds are self sustaining (yes new blood in the form of male animals are necessary to protect the genes) so from time to time new males are introduced to the areas.
So just ask the right questions and plan your trip to South Africa, as i said i have not watched the show but it sounds as if the hunting could not have portrayed what it really is like. different areas use different hunting techniques due to the different type of vegetation, i can promise you in our area you are not going to kill 4-5 different animals a day. Not because of the lack of game but the type of field will not allow it. Your visibility in the bush is limited to a maximum of 100m sometimes 200m. So we use high points like mountains or koppies to scout for game and then stalk from there if they were spotted. So as an avg we work on an animal a day if you are trophy hunting. Cull hunting maybe 2 if you are lucky 3 animals a day because we use the same hunting technique.
Just my 2c
I have not seen the program but would like to comment on this subject.
I think first of all we as hunters/Shooters should all refrain from using the words "canned hunting" this is the stick that our industry gets beaten with and if we use the term they are winning the fight.
I will not comment on the CBL "captive bred lions" as it is a controversial subject with lots of different emotions and opinions. With regards to plains game hunting as being mentioned above almost all of South Africa is fenced even the E.C where it is commonly advertised as low fenced areas be sure the animals are fenced in. Except for maybe Kudu, Eland and impala which will be able to clear a low fence, all other animals will try and crawl underneath a fence as they are not jumpers. Because of human intervention and activities animals in the "wild" are very few but some species like Kudu, Impala, warthog and duiker can survive in an open area farm land, not in huge numbers but you will find the odd one. It is due to fenced areas that S.A's game numbers have always been good as this is one of our biggest conservation methods.
When you hunt these areas you will not feel that the animals are in a "pen" just ask your outfitter about property size. a 1000ha is a big piece of land especially with our type of vegetation. And the herds are self sustaining (yes new blood in the form of male animals are necessary to protect the genes) so from time to time new males are introduced to the areas.
So just ask the right questions and plan your trip to South Africa, as i said i have not watched the show but it sounds as if the hunting could not have portrayed what it really is like. different areas use different hunting techniques due to the different type of vegetation, i can promise you in our area you are not going to kill 4-5 different animals a day. Not because of the lack of game but the type of field will not allow it. Your visibility in the bush is limited to a maximum of 100m sometimes 200m. So we use high points like mountains or koppies to scout for game and then stalk from there if they were spotted. So as an avg we work on an animal a day if you are trophy hunting. Cull hunting maybe 2 if you are lucky 3 animals a day because we use the same hunting technique.
Just my 2c
goathunter1
Well-Known Member
Gerrit, I wish we could get an animal a day when trophy hunting!! My legs are still torn to shreds hunting that Sable for three days - and how many days have we hunted Eland? Five maybe? The programme had good bits and bad. It wasn’t all about South Africa. There were snippets of Namibia and Zim.
You may be able to find it on some sort of internet channel, but it wasn’t good enough to put too much work into.
You may be able to find it on some sort of internet channel, but it wasn’t good enough to put too much work into.
Bos en Dal Safaris
Well-Known Member
LOL sorry my friend, maybe it is because your PH was of his game that it took us 3 days to get you a proper sable....
Reading through the comments it seemed like they made it look as if you were in a shopping market and just shooting left right and centre, hence the reason i wanted to put my opinion out there.
P.S we will get you that Eland this year
Reading through the comments it seemed like they made it look as if you were in a shopping market and just shooting left right and centre, hence the reason i wanted to put my opinion out there.
P.S we will get you that Eland this year
2130martin
Well-Known Member
I wasn't happy with how they casually took a fag break while waiting for the Elephant to die.....That was sickening.
And then the yeeha attitude towards shooting the Croc in a paddling pool,that was bad too.
Then the aftermath of the poachers.....
Looks like using the "canned" terminology is the least of Africa's worries,they need to tidy up there act over there,the world is watching.
And then the yeeha attitude towards shooting the Croc in a paddling pool,that was bad too.
Then the aftermath of the poachers.....
Looks like using the "canned" terminology is the least of Africa's worries,they need to tidy up there act over there,the world is watching.
Bos en Dal Safaris
Well-Known Member
Was it mentioned with whom they were hunting!!!! Who had such an attitude the clients or the PH and Outfitter?
deerstalker.308
Well-Known Member
It was an American client who Yee-haa’d and said something along the lines of how he smoked that f@£cker the guides were all logod up throughout the programme so no one was shying away from anything. In fairness the PH’s did nothing of the sort, only the clients.
I have to agree that standing back to smoke a cigar whilst waiting for the elephant to expire was painful viewing, it could so easily have had another shot as has been the case in every bit of footage I’ve ever seen of such hunts, if nothing else for insurance sake, it didnt look good hearing it groaning with close ups of its face and eyes very clearly alive but dying slowly.
Bos en Dal Safaris
Well-Known Member
That is what ****es me off with documentaries or shows like this, they base all the facts on this one hunt, 1 client, 1 view and it puts our whole industry in jeopardy or at the very least leaves a bad taste in your mouth.
I agree it is not nice seeing the animals like that and one should put them out as quickly as possible, but why the hell will producers show the suffering of the animal. Stuff like that draws a lot of attention and i guess that is what they want. The more people watching the show (don't matter for what reason) the more money they get...
2130martin
Well-Known Member
The client was yeeha'ing about the Croc but the Local guide was quite happy to take a smoke while they waited for the Elephant to expire,that seemed the norm....I feltb a shot to the brain to end it would have been a good thing to see...
I am certainly no snowflake but that was all very sickening to watch and the Locals should have done more to promote humane culling in my opinion
howa243
Well-Known Member
What we need to be careful about is not letting it happen here.
EMcC
Well-Known Member
The word 'Canned Hunting' conjures up allsorts of misconceptions, mainly the thought that is just a bit of target practice on semi wild animals.
As does the word 'Fenced' what people don't realise is that the areas fenced are nearly, or can be, as big and sometimes bigger, than some counties in UK and the 'semi wild' animals that have been released have as much free range as any other wild animal elsewhere.
Does anybody ever use the term 'canned' when talking about pheasant shooting ? think about it !
As does the word 'Fenced' what people don't realise is that the areas fenced are nearly, or can be, as big and sometimes bigger, than some counties in UK and the 'semi wild' animals that have been released have as much free range as any other wild animal elsewhere.
Does anybody ever use the term 'canned' when talking about pheasant shooting ? think about it !
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