BASC opposes new proposals for medical fees

David63

Well-Known Member
BASC opposes new Home Office proposals to make every gun owner pay a fee to their GP when applying for a shotgun or firearm certificate.

Following a meeting on Tuesday with Nick Hurd, the minister responsible for firearm licensing, BASC understands the Home Office plans to abandon the current system agreed in 2016.

This decision follows a campaign of non-cooperation by the British Medical Association (BMA) to the agreement on improving medical involvement in the licensing system reached following extensive negotiations bythe Medical Evidence Working Group, which included representatives of the HomeOffice, police, the shooting community and doctors.

Christopher Graffius, BASC’s director of communications, said: “This will be regarded by the shooting community as a betrayal by government.

“It will discriminate against those who requirea firearm as a tool of their job, damage participation in shooting sports and its benefits to the country and alienate a community which is a natural supporter of the government a month before the local elections.”

The proposals will see the Home Office renege on the agreement reached in 2016 which stated that applicants were not required to pay a fee to GPs for their response to an initial police medical letter sent on application. It ensured that applicants would not be disadvantaged by a GP’s refusal to provide medical information.

It was also agreed that GPs would implement a system that saw them add an encoded ‘marker’ to the medical records of those who own guns.The shooting community considered this a sensible step towards ensuring public safety.

While the Home Office does not keep records, BASC believesless than one per cent of initial firearms licensing applicants are rejected on medical grounds.

Mr Graffius added: “BASC has been told by the Home Office that it is planning to insist every firearms certificate holder consultstheir GP and pays a fee on application and renewal of their certificate.

“The figures are not yet clear, but this will be in addition to the fee already payable to the police and could increase the total cost of an application by more than 50 per cent.

“This is an abandonment of risk management in the licensing system, may contravene Treasury rules and is completely disproportionate because we believe that less than one percent of certificates are rejected on medical grounds.

“These proposals will damage the relationship between the shooting community and the government.
“Agreement was reached by all parties, including the doctors, who sat around the table for many, many hours before approving the licensing scheme in 2016.

“If these proposals are introduced without consultation, it will reflect badly on both the government and the medical profession and, in the eyes of the shooting community, erode confidence in both.”

BASC had previously asked the Home Office to reconvene the Medical Evidence WorkingGroup in an attempt to strike an agreement with the medical professionthat would satisfy all stakeholders.
 
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Welcome to the real world of firearms licencing in Scotland.

Will the Home Office fix the GP's fees I wonder? They might I suppose, but then the BMA can just ignore this too.

I think it is sensible to check on a person's medical history at grant/renewal. But how it is done, what it should cost and who does it is beyond me.

Surely we can't be the only country in the world who wants to do this sort of thing. How does it work elsewhere?

hh
 
Saw this coming, as soon as doctors started messing about refusing to co-operate it was inevitable they would propose this.
Begs the question what will happen with those doctors stating a "conscientious objection"? If we're forced to pay up, will they be forced to shelve their prejudice and act professionally, or will they still be allowed to indirectly block applications for reasons unrelated to medicine...
Also, will the fee be set nationally, or will doctors who dislike shooting or don't want the hassle simply attempt to price people out.
So many questions ...
 
who checks the doctors? the ones asking for money dont have the patients interest in mind only the extra money they can get.i would not trust any highly paid doctor who asks for cash/more money .they are using law abiding fac owners as they think we wont kick off.
 
Oh good grief. Why don't the Home Office just include it in their pricing structure when setting the costs for grants and renewals? It's patently obvious that they are going to get the applicants to foot the bill and I can't see that changing however much BASC, me or anyone else wants otherwise. At least that way it'll be more streamlined and I won't lose the will to live by reading yet another thread on this most annoying of subjects.
 
Oh good grief. Why don't the Home Office just include it in their pricing structure when setting the costs for grants and renewals? It's patently obvious that they are going to get the applicants to foot the bill and I can't see that changing however much BASC, me or anyone else wants otherwise. At least that way it'll be more streamlined and I won't lose the will to live by reading yet another thread on this most annoying of subjects.

Bravo!
 
who checks the doctors? the ones asking for money dont have the patients interest in mind only the extra money they can get.i would not trust any highly paid doctor who asks for cash/more money .they are using law abiding fac owners as they think we wont kick off.

^totally agree^

on a similar note a close relative recently was misdiagnosed with dementia by the local gp [clerical error evidently ],when challenged they admitted their gross mistake over the phone but when asked to confirm in writing they demanded £30,, wtf? it's your bloody mistake. :finger: its all about cash,,,,

in respect to paying for information to procure a fac/sgc I would have thought a freely given reference was more reliable than one that has profit in mind.
 
I think BASC have got to really come out with all guns blazing on this to prove to its members that they really can stand up and fight for its members otherwise I think there will be a lot of members starting to think, what is the point of being a member as they do not seem to have the ability to change anything and maybe we are better off using the subscription money to pay the medical fee.

millions of people in this country are licensed to use a deadly weapon everyday, one that kills thousands each year, what comes next a medical every 5 years to hold a driving licence, perhaps it will be the new way of funding the NHS
 
I think BASC have got to really come out with all guns blazing on this to prove to its members that they really can stand up and fight for its members otherwise I think there will be a lot of members starting to think, what is the point of being a member as they do not seem to have the ability to change anything and maybe we are better off using the subscription money to pay the medical fee.

millions of people in this country are licensed to use a deadly weapon everyday, one that kills thousands each year, what comes next a medical every 5 years to hold a driving licence, perhaps it will be the new way of funding the NHS

"don't put bloody ideas into their dumb heads:rofl:"

anyways they already gearing up to remove drivers from cars and make them all driver-less electric boxes, should be fun trying to get the freshly shot red stag home on the bonnet of one of those eh.:lol:
 
"don't put bloody ideas into their dumb heads:rofl:"

anyways they already gearing up to remove drivers from cars and make them all driver-less electric boxes, should be fun trying to get the freshly shot red stag home on the bonnet of one of those eh.:lol:

It will be interesting to see how these driverless cars handle some of the tracks in the Scottish forests!
 
Two things occur to me:

1. It might be helpful for BASC to reflect on their manner of negotiation with the Police, HO, BMA etc. I fear that they tend to underestimate the experience and skill of these bodies relative to their own, and this is sometimes apparent in the outcomes.

2. BASC has apparently already been involved in the approval of a procedure under which FAC/SGC applicants have to pay medical practitioners unspecified sums for reports. This was not all applicants, of course - only those unlucky enough to have particular conditions. However, it does the give the appearance that a principle has thereby been established that it is acceptable for applicants to pay unspecified charges to GPs, apparently at the whim of both the FLD, as well as the statutory fee.

However, I'm still not persuaded that it is in any sense lawful for the HO effectively to impose non-statutory costs as part of the application procedure; for the Act describes a process for certification of fitness to exercise a right in law and states the fee payable for that process.

In any case, it would be useful to see some evidence that this change in procedure is necessary to maintain public safety. It wasn't from 1920 to 2016 - so what changed? In any case, do GPs not have a duty to advise the FLD of potential problems with their patients, just as they have to advise the DVLA, the police, social services etc. of various kinds of potential difficulties which people under their care may run into?

In Scotland, I recall reading that it was a change in the way the Chief Constable interpreted the meaning of the word 'satisfied' as in A firearm certificate shall be granted where the chief officer of police is satisfied.....
Again, it is pertinent to ask why the things that satisfied them since 1920 have now ceased to be satisfactory.
 
BASC have been well and truly suckered- I see no mention of a 10 year certificate which led to this. Extra cost (certificate) now extra cost (medical - MAYBE) and NO benefit. I say no benefit because, as we all seem to have forgotten ALL the murders in recent times by legal gun owners relate entirely to police failures.
Well here's another FAILURE by BASC.
You and I pay for this 'seat at the table' which delivers nothing - so why bother ?
BASC must justify themselves now by exposing how past failures resulting in murders, have happened in detail, by refusing this illegal charge.
TAKE A CASE !!!! or get a QC's opinion on the legitimacy of the charge.
Press for a public enquiry to examine how licensing failures have led to and justified thi; question the application of intelligence led approach to public safety in this sphere
but for GOD'S sake do something other than the usual - BASC 'says' because it entirely obvious after this that NOBODY IS LISTENING TO BASC.
What about all that blether about Lincolnshire and in other places - blackmail wasn't it - just fluff, as usual.
If this is the result from the voice of shooting, it might as well have said nothing at all.
Sorry but for what I pay, this is sickening.
 
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BASC haspress released its initial response and the political team has already writtento 135 MPs and Pees to outline the association’s intention to challenge theseproposals. BASC’s firearms team are currently examining thedetail of the brief given yesterday by the Home Office and more informationwill follow .

The more organisations and shooters who engage the better.
 
Isnt this what we pay our subs for.

Here's how this might work: your local MP gets a letter from BASC and says "I don't agree with that." Or your local MP gets 8,000 letters from constituents who want fair and reasonable firearms licencing arrangements and says "I'd better pay some attention to this as I only won my seat by 1,000 votes at the last election." BASC can't live your life for you, or do all the donkey work for you, and in the end any organisation is only as strong and effective as its members.

It probably takes about the same time to drop your MP a quick email as it does to post on this forum so, if there is a matter you feel strongly about, then drop him or her a line. A few days back I got a reply from my MP on a matter I raised. The reply was extensive and well considered and not a "standard letter" by any means. It picked up on, and dealt with, several of the points I made and it concluded by him saying that he believed we needed dialogue on the matter and that he, and some other MPs, had approached ministers on the subject. Engaging with the democratic process is not always productive, you don't always get the answer you want, but you might find it more useful and satisfying that you imagine.
 
I wonder if this has anything to do with the Jocks bowing down to bullying by Police Scotland and coughing up when told to do so, then the HMISC reporting that paying a fee for the initial letter was a good idea and had been working well in Scotland, i take my hat off to any scottish shooters who stood up to this but to the rest of you, thanks very much

Ian
 
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