What do you consider good enough group wise for a rifle at 100 meters?
- Thread starter Zetter
- Start date
Willie
Well-Known Member
I read a lot of posts on this site with lads shooting sub 1/4” groups at 100+ yards.
I’ve decided I must be a crap target shot. Still shoot plenty of deer most of which drop on the spot. So to the original poster, Zetter, your 0.243” rifle is shooting fine at 3/4”-1” groups at 100 yards for normal range deer stalking.
Willie
I’ve decided I must be a crap target shot. Still shoot plenty of deer most of which drop on the spot. So to the original poster, Zetter, your 0.243” rifle is shooting fine at 3/4”-1” groups at 100 yards for normal range deer stalking.
Willie
Last edited:
Sheprador1973
Well-Known Member
Not got a great deal of experience but thought I should be entitled to a say on this.
When I shot my first target last year, with a very accurate .243, I was ashamed of the 'group' I produced. Looked shocking through the scope! Upon closer inspection & up close it wasn't too bad. My next shots with a .308 were considerably better, strange as you'd think the greater recoil would adversely affect accuracy. Thin what did it for me (as a novice) is that I relaxed far more. Took LESS time trying to align the reticle perfectly and just shot when it felt right. IMO practice is the key.
Hopefully related, but in my music days playing in an early band, our drummer had an absolute PIG of a kit and wasn't a great player at all. It was out of tune, unstable and sounded godawful to everyone who played it or heard it. He was about to buy a new one for circa £1000 at Pro Perc in Kentish Town when a friend of mine ,who played in another band (and later in mine) turned up. He sat at this piece of c@*p and made the thing sing! It was scary and I wish I'd recored him playing! John Bonham in my mate's bedroom... We learnt a hard lesson about the relationship between equipment and the skills of those using them that day I tell you
When I shot my first target last year, with a very accurate .243, I was ashamed of the 'group' I produced. Looked shocking through the scope! Upon closer inspection & up close it wasn't too bad. My next shots with a .308 were considerably better, strange as you'd think the greater recoil would adversely affect accuracy. Thin what did it for me (as a novice) is that I relaxed far more. Took LESS time trying to align the reticle perfectly and just shot when it felt right. IMO practice is the key.
Hopefully related, but in my music days playing in an early band, our drummer had an absolute PIG of a kit and wasn't a great player at all. It was out of tune, unstable and sounded godawful to everyone who played it or heard it. He was about to buy a new one for circa £1000 at Pro Perc in Kentish Town when a friend of mine ,who played in another band (and later in mine) turned up. He sat at this piece of c@*p and made the thing sing! It was scary and I wish I'd recored him playing! John Bonham in my mate's bedroom... We learnt a hard lesson about the relationship between equipment and the skills of those using them that day I tell you
antsa
Well-Known Member
I enjoy the process of developing accurate loads for my centre fire rifles. Varying bullet types, powder loads, seating depth and so on with the aim off achieving the best results from my firearms. I have a reloading area in my workshop/garage and a shooting bench and a 100 metre range outside the door. When out in the field, something I do three or four times a week, I appreciate the confidence I have in my firearm, the ammunition I'm using and my own ability. I also shoot regularly in comps at two rifle clubs that I am a member of.
A lot of my shooting these days is kangaroo culling. I have permits to shoot on two neighbouring properties as well as my own. Two requirements for the permit are that the kangaroo must be put down with a head shot (brain shot actually, bearing in mind how "easy" it is to shoot the jaw off of the poor bugger) and this at a maximum range of 200 metres. When I know that the combination of rifle, round and me is capable of sub MOA or even sub 0.5 MOA at 100 m off the bench then I'm quite confident in taking the above shots. Sometimes off-hand for the shorter distances otherwise off the Quad or other field-expedient rests, especially for the longer ones.
The other quarry we have a lot of around here is fallow deer. With these the vital zone is larger and a 1 MOA ability is more than sufficient. For foxes and feral cats I aim centre-mass. But again, knowing that my kit is capable of a tighter result doesn't hurt.
Don't sub-optimise. Only settle for the best your equipment is capable of. You owe it to your quarry.
Cheers
A lot of my shooting these days is kangaroo culling. I have permits to shoot on two neighbouring properties as well as my own. Two requirements for the permit are that the kangaroo must be put down with a head shot (brain shot actually, bearing in mind how "easy" it is to shoot the jaw off of the poor bugger) and this at a maximum range of 200 metres. When I know that the combination of rifle, round and me is capable of sub MOA or even sub 0.5 MOA at 100 m off the bench then I'm quite confident in taking the above shots. Sometimes off-hand for the shorter distances otherwise off the Quad or other field-expedient rests, especially for the longer ones.
The other quarry we have a lot of around here is fallow deer. With these the vital zone is larger and a 1 MOA ability is more than sufficient. For foxes and feral cats I aim centre-mass. But again, knowing that my kit is capable of a tighter result doesn't hurt.
Don't sub-optimise. Only settle for the best your equipment is capable of. You owe it to your quarry.
Cheers
Last edited:
Tom D
Well-Known Member
I agree with this. I have a very similar loading set up, in fact when I loaded the OCW test recently I loaded one, fired it, then loaded the next while the barrel was cooling. I think unless all you do is boiler room shots at woods ranges then it’s nice to have a gun / load that you are confident with, I have head shot out to 170 yards, not something I’d do regularly but if the deer are lying down they tend to be pretty still, with those shots a sub moa gun is important..
And that, ladies, is all you need to know.
See the picture in the Articles and Write Ups I posted last night? Back of the skull at 218m. Tom D is 100% correct, when you need to (a) be humane (b) ensure recovery, you must be able to shoot the animal where you maximise your chances of achieving these objectives. Anything else is folly.
Last edited:
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
Accuracy is a tricky topic. For me I want a rifle / scope combination that will hit an iPhone sized target at a typical range I will be shooting with the first shot from a cold barrel from a field position. If I can shoot a group of five shots, each from a cold barrel into that sized target that is good enough for any deer that walks. My rifles does with ease at 100m.
When shooting groups choice of target makes a big difference especially with thicker reticuled Low power hunting type scopes.
When shooting groups choice of target makes a big difference especially with thicker reticuled Low power hunting type scopes.
Any shooter will shoot better groups with an accurate rifle compared to a not so accurate rifle, There is no doubt, no matter what some might say. So one goal is to get the rifle accurate. There are of course many other factors that play a role apart from the rifle to actually shoot well and hit what you intend to hit however the best shooter will not get a 4" rifle to shoot 1/2" without improving the rifle.
The performance level of rifle and hunter will determine how far or under what conditions one can shoot game at. …..Even a bad shooter shoots better with an accurate rifle... fact. Some just cannot shoot no matter what rifle and need coaching which is a different matter.
My deer rifles can all shoot well under 1/2", even the ones with normal sporter barrels.
edi
The performance level of rifle and hunter will determine how far or under what conditions one can shoot game at. …..Even a bad shooter shoots better with an accurate rifle... fact. Some just cannot shoot no matter what rifle and need coaching which is a different matter.
My deer rifles can all shoot well under 1/2", even the ones with normal sporter barrels.
edi
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting point on targets - my scopes cover a bullseye at 100m pretty much so without clamping the rifle it is difficult to know how accurate it actually is. Even if I hold properly etc it’s difficult to be sure I was aiming at the same spot to maybe half an inch. So other than clamping the gun, I am not sure I can ever really know exactly how accurate the gun is down to the margins of error we are talking.
not that it matters to me too much, as above - iPhone size is fine! But I would like to know which targets would be best suited for these hunting scopes if it would help.
I use a 1/2" red or black spot on plain paper most of the time: far smaller than most bullseyes.
If on a range where the targets are already up, I aim at the very bottom edge of the bull: the 6 o'clock point. That seems the most accurate and consistent point of aim for me.
Last edited:
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Thanks Sash
thats very helpful
Will
thats very helpful
Will
Tom D
Well-Known Member
I used to have a scope with a heavy reticule, I found that a large shape, either a square, circle or diamond was ideal as it’s quite easy to bisect the shape with the cross hairs so that an equal amount of shape is visible on each quadrant of the crosshairs.
There are loads of downloadable targets available on line, print a few off and try aiming at a selection to see what you like best. Go for a big bold shape with a hollow centre if you have low mag or thick crosshairs.
There are loads of downloadable targets available on line, print a few off and try aiming at a selection to see what you like best. Go for a big bold shape with a hollow centre if you have low mag or thick crosshairs.
As Tom says, something like the 3rd image here - The Stalking Directory - Stalking Directory Zeroing Targets
Or make your own variant up?
Regards
JCS
Or make your own variant up?
Regards
JCS
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
For a target I like a three inch square divided into into 9 1 inch squares. The three corner squares are black, the rest, white or yellow leaving a 1" cross.
Cross hair lines up with the cross and you should a thin white line all around the cross hair. If cross hair is thick then go for bigger squares.
With a post reticle or open sights then an inverted T of gaffer tape makes a perfect target.
And with a dot reticle, then a circular ring is ideal.
Your naturally centres the sights between fixed points - thats how open sights or target sights work and why target shooters shoot little tiny groups with a ring front sight. Its also why when a flock of pigeons or ducks flight over you miss - well you dont, you instictively shoot to gap between several birds.
Cross hair lines up with the cross and you should a thin white line all around the cross hair. If cross hair is thick then go for bigger squares.
With a post reticle or open sights then an inverted T of gaffer tape makes a perfect target.
And with a dot reticle, then a circular ring is ideal.
Your naturally centres the sights between fixed points - thats how open sights or target sights work and why target shooters shoot little tiny groups with a ring front sight. Its also why when a flock of pigeons or ducks flight over you miss - well you dont, you instictively shoot to gap between several birds.
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Very interesting reading, thank you
If your thick reticle is obscuring your target while just checking groups, aim at the bottom of the bullseye, as suggested above,
or
bracket the bullseye in one upper corners of your crosshair, where you can see it just touching the them. If you have your rifle zeroed at 200 yards, and you are checking a new load at 100, your group should be about 2 inches high and about 1/2 inch off the side of your bull.
or
bracket the bullseye in one upper corners of your crosshair, where you can see it just touching the them. If you have your rifle zeroed at 200 yards, and you are checking a new load at 100, your group should be about 2 inches high and about 1/2 inch off the side of your bull.
Essexsussex
Well-Known Member
Thanks southern
I modified one of the Stalking Directory targets and it works well with either thin or thick post reticules centred in the white circle...alternatively use a target with a defined square which you can run along one the quadrants of the cross hairs as described above.
"Aim small, group small" is the ideal. You want to be able to register the scope in the same place each time with out having to gauge anything.
I print this off at whatever percentage the range is going to be...so 100% for 100yards and 94% for my garden zero range of 94yards so that I can use the 1" grid to gauge what the group size would be at 100yards.
"Aim small, group small" is the ideal. You want to be able to register the scope in the same place each time with out having to gauge anything.
I print this off at whatever percentage the range is going to be...so 100% for 100yards and 94% for my garden zero range of 94yards so that I can use the 1" grid to gauge what the group size would be at 100yards.
OkieRodBurner
Member
I agree completely with your ending comment, when u are using a rifle.that you're comfortable with, it is easier to clear your mind of worries and slow the breathing and heartbeat and get into that flow state where.you could damn near shoot eyes closed and put it in the DOA zone. Once I got comfortable with my jiu jitsu, or aith roping off the back of my horse, theres timea i feel I cant lose. My 17hmr does that for me. I could put 5 rounds in a <1 grouping Consistently. But I also put ton of rounds thru it to get that comfortable
Similar threads
