tinsellclark
Active Member
I couldn’t improve on the factory Hornady in mine 5 shot 0.18 group was mind blown
6.5 Creedmoor Load Suggestions
- Thread starter bryn
- Start date
tinsellclark
Active Member
Shame it’s £47.50 a box
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
nun_hunter
Well-Known Member
Further to add to this thread does anyone load the 130grain TMK or similar? Due to the cost of the 143 ELD-X and not really practicing much about 500m at the mo the 130grain are cheaper and will be more than enough BC wise.
tinsellclark
Active Member
That's cheap for a dozen deer!
Lol Fair enough hopefully used 10 to zero!
Is that with 143s? If so that's over pressure surely?
Its with Lapua Scenars 139gr and Peterson brass.
The small primer brass changes the limits markedly as per Laurie.
This is not an exaggeration or a silly pressure-warnings-ignored exercise, far from it. The guy in our little community who first went down the RL-16 path is what I would regard as a very careful, highly experienced reloader (and expert rifle builder and wild catter). It has subsequently been repeated by another guy with a Howa like mine, same brass, and the same bullet.
Sorry, I should add that in the case of the custom Rem 700, the chamber had a small touch up with the reamber to allow for a small increase in COAL. In the case of the Howa, the COAL is 0.010” off the lands (IIRC) and the owner is single round loading as they are too long for the internal mag. He has a project is underway to increase the Howa Creedmoor max COAL using a long action detachable mag kit and the removal of some action material, I am not too up to speed on the details.
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Barrel length? (Edit, just remembered 24" on original post)
That goes some way to explaining it but even with the SR primer brass and loner COAL he is getting 200 fps more than what alliant deem safe out of a 24" barrel, thats a lot! There was a guy on UKV shouting about how he'd got 3000 fps+ (can't recall the exact figure) out of his creedmoor with a 140, no pressure signs etc. probably SRP brass, experienced reloader etc. etc. Refused to put his load data on there until he had pressure checked the load, it got as far as him submitting rounds for pressure testing to the proof house it then it all went quiet, not a peep. My guess is he was over pressure.
It doesn't matter how experienced a reloader is unless they have pressure testing equipment they can't know 100% they are not exceeding the pressure the cartridge is designed for, Laurie has also written plenty of times that SRP palma type brass can mask pressure signs even if you are over pressure.
For comparison I am getting 2820 fps out of a howa with 'high energy reloader' 17 in SR primer lapua brass loaded to saami length, any faster I get marked pressure signs.
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I was surprised to discover that N150 produced higher velocities than N550, grain for grain.
Whilst Vihtavuori claim higher velocities can be achieved with N550 over N150, a closer look shows that they are using far higher charge weights of N550 to achieve these velocities.
Is it simply the case that N550 is denser than N150, and so you can get a heavier weight of N550 into the case (all other things being equal).
Does N550 therefore produce a lower pressure than N150?
Whilst Vihtavuori claim higher velocities can be achieved with N550 over N150, a closer look shows that they are using far higher charge weights of N550 to achieve these velocities.
Is it simply the case that N550 is denser than N150, and so you can get a heavier weight of N550 into the case (all other things being equal).
Does N550 therefore produce a lower pressure than N150?
It's all good 25 Sharps.
After very carefully modelling the final load with all the correct dimensions, case capacity, etc etc in Quickload, the peak pressure outcome is ~3.5% less than SAAMI max. The velocity isn't quite there, not far off, well within what I've experienced with Quickload and some of its estimates in the past (particularly with ADI / Hodgdon powders).
Also, the Alliant website doesn't give minimum or maximum loads like the rest, just the one. There's the normal disclaimer at the front about not exceeding it, start at 10% lower. I thought that was very interesting. But their published load is quite close velocity wise to what has been achieved with a longer COAL, slightly more powder, and a shorter barrel (albeit a well run in, very good quality one). Every rifle, powder, case and bullet combination will yield different results. For example, the 143gr ELD-X in the Lapua SR case was a bit of a disaster in this same rifle, with very clear pressure signs much earlier than I have experienced in my Howa with the exact same combination.
At the end of the day, the outcome is what it is. I trust this bloke's approach, his experience, and for what its worth, the configuration of the custom rifle is such that he is the absolute last bloke on the planet who would ever want to experience an over-pressure failure... Maybe a case of 'don't do this at home' for the regular bloke, but to be honest all my mate has done is follow the established path of working up to find pressure, and backing off.
EDIT! Just had a touchup from my mate who has reminded me that it wasn’t the 139gr Scenar, it was the discontinued (?) 136gr Scenar, and the 130gr TMK that he settled on. Very similar velocities.
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So, different bullet, custom chamber, custom rifle, longer COAL . . . . .
Kind of makes sense now as it is definitely not apples for apples, as for QL its useful but I still don't rely on it as if you give 3 people the exact same data they come up with 3 different answers, sometimes only slightly but if you're on the edge of over pressure a little can be enough. If he has run a standard reamer in a little further to increase the leade and allow a longer COAL has he not also also moved the shoulder forward slightly and therefore also increased capacity?
What was his H20 capacity out of interest?
Alliant give max loads, with the advice to drop 10% to give a start load, they're not the only ones, "DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE." can't really be interpreted as anything other than the stated loads are maximum!
I'm sure your mate's load is safe in his rifle but posting that 3000 fps is achievable for a 140ish bullet, without all the subsequent qualifications, is just asking for someone less experienced to try and emulate it and run into problems.
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Slickshot
Well-Known Member
I’m also using RS62 with my 6.5 creedmoor. I’m not using the 143 eld-x but using the 147 eld-m as my barrel has been chambered for that bullet & my 1-7 twist rate suites them perfectly. My data is below
Lapua brass SR (neck turned)
CCI 450 magnum primer Small rifle
45.0 gr RS62
Hornady 147 eld-m
Coal Ogive 2.290”
2854 FPS with new brass with an SD of 8.8 (10 shots)
2833 FPS with fired brass with an SD of 5.5 (10 shots)
Very accurate load been knocking crows over at 600 plus yards & Fox size gongs at 1100 yards with ease!
Love this powder!
Lapua brass SR (neck turned)
CCI 450 magnum primer Small rifle
45.0 gr RS62
Hornady 147 eld-m
Coal Ogive 2.290”
2854 FPS with new brass with an SD of 8.8 (10 shots)
2833 FPS with fired brass with an SD of 5.5 (10 shots)
Very accurate load been knocking crows over at 600 plus yards & Fox size gongs at 1100 yards with ease!
Love this powder!
The other thing I’d emphasise is the importance of validating your chrono velocity with drop tests at say 300 and 600m on still days. The more blokes I meet and discuss this cartridge with, the more times I’m hearing of positive discrepancies, i.e. velocities appear to be higher as measured drops are less than modelled. There has been quite a bit of debate about the cause of this over a few beers - BC, velocity or iffy chrono readings? Anyway, a proper 5 shot drop test at a couple of different ranges that you shoot at can make the difference between an ok outcome, or an outcome like Slickshot’s above.
And I drop test every new batch of 100 too, there’s always a slight difference.
And I drop test every new batch of 100 too, there’s always a slight difference.
No need to apologise, just glad you see where I'm coming from, agreed on book max but that's a subject for those with enough experience not to follow everything they read on the net in the first place.
Did you know your mate's H2O capacity? Only ask as looking at a UKV thread Lapua may be slightly low, which makes sense for thicker stronger brass. I have some Sako once fired to try out, its Large rifle and I got it primarily for a hunting load for the rifle but may try the 139 scenars out of it with RS60 (RL17), if RL16 does come available over here I'll definitely give it a go,
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