6.5 Creedmoor Load Suggestions

bryn

Well-Known Member
I am about to start reloading for my Remington (Magpul) 6.5 Creedmoor (22 inch barrel 1 in 8 twist). I intend to use once fired Hornady brass, large rifle primers, Honady ELDX 143g bullets and Swiss Reload RS62 powder.

I would appreciate any advice from shooters who have reloaded this combination including starting weights nodes etc.

Thanks

bryn
 
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That's the problem I found with the RS powders and my creedmoor, lack of loading data, I use Ram shot Big game and 143 eldx and find it very accurate.
 
"I intend to use once fired Hornady brass"

Don't push your loads too far towards the max load, the Hornady cases tend to get loose primer pockets after a few firings due to the high pressures the Creedmoor can produce (62,000psi +).

Quite a lot of Creedmoor shooters have switched to small primer cases, Peterson, Lapua, StarLine etc.
 
Found this?
Reload Swiss RS62: Actual Vs QL for 6.5 Creedmoor - Handloading - UKV - The Place for Precision Rifle Enthusiasts



I am loading LOVEX SO70 in my Creedmoor under 140's. Just got this powder, marketed as Shooter's World "SW4350" here in the States, and i'm hoping to find similarities to H4350 which sells for near Vhit prices here....~Muir


That was the thread I started over on UKV. I have loads of RS 62 load data for 123, 139 and 140grn bullets with small primer brass in Creedmoor if anyone wants some suggestions, with the usual caveats applied.
 
Bryn .... be very careful with the data in the UKV thread. It is for Small Rifle primed brass. SR ignition is much less vigorous than with Large Rifle and will change maximum loads by 1 to 1.5gn. Using SR brass data in LR brass loads can see OTT pressures very quickly. Secondly, SR Lapua brass (and I suspect Peterson too having compared the two makes in the not too different 260 Rem is a heavier case with less internal capacity than the Hornady which again changes the internal ballistics, quite significantly here.) Thirdly, the SR brass is VERY strong compared to Hornady - people are routinely running pressures in their SR 6.5 Creedmoor handloads that will kill Hornady in a couple of firings, may even see blown primers from the 'off'. (SAAMI lists the cartridge as 62,000 psi MAP and Lapua / Peterson SR brass allow that - and more - with comfort. Hornady loads its factory ammunition to 56,000-58,000 psi and frankly that is all Hornady cases will accept and still give a reasonable life.)

So, a maximum safe load (of any bullet / powder combination in SR Lapua / Peterson brass is potentially - I'll go further and say probably - too high for Hornady, and in fact likley to be unsafe.)

SR ignition (including the smaller diameter 'flash-Hole 1.5mm v the standard 2mm) also gives cartridges very different burn and pressure-rise characteristics from LR versions. So, there are in effect two cartridges here (and in 308 between standard LR brass and SR 'Palma' versions) sharing the same name. Most published loads data from bullet and powder manufacturers is for Hornady brass, but Viht's data are based on SR Lapua.

RS62 is very well suited to the cartridge in either form and is probably the best alternative to the now unavailable H4350, although IMR 'green' and Reach-compliant 4451 grade is very close in this and other cartridges to H4350 and has full data on Hodgdon's online reloading center facility.

When I had a play with the cartridge two years ago in a loaner Savage 12 LRP, I worked up to 45.0gn RS62 with the 123gn Scenar and 43.5gn RS62 with the 142gn Sierra MK. 43.5 RS62 gave the 142 2,842 fps in the 26-inch barrel LRP without any apparent pressure problems. This was in Hornady brass and with the mild CCI-BR2 primer.

In heavier but still LR Norma brass (superb quality and strong, much better than Hornady) I loaded the 140gn Nosler Custom Competition which the Savage liked more than the AMax, Scenars, or SMKs. Using H4350, IMR-4451, and RS62 loads were worked up to 42.4gn H4350; 43.3 IMR-4451 (it needs another 0.5-1gn over H4350 to achieve same MVs in the Creedmoor); 43.5gn RS62. Charges above 42.2gn RS62 in the Savage produced larger groups and I settled on a relatively mild/slow 42.2gn for 2,712 fps out of the Savage but which shot quarter - third inch at 100 and gave me a sub 6-inch 1,000 yard group in a BR competition. Nodes for your rifle / barrel won't be the same, you have to find them. These loads were in Norma brass with the BR2.

In summary, my testing suggested usable loads for IMR-4451, H4350, and RS62 are all close to each other. RS62 and IMR-4451 needed slightly heavier charges than H4350 to produce any given velocity in that rifle. This allows the widely available H4350 data to be adopted to provide starting loads only for RS62, and data must never be simply substituted or listed maximum charges for one to be regarded as safe with the others.

Muir. Lovex SO70/SW-4350 is an excellent powder in the 4350 general burning rate category. If you dig out your old reloading manuals of 12 or more years ago, this was what was then distributed in the US as AA-4350. (This was before Western Powders bought Accurate and switched suppliers from Explosia a.s. to General Dynamics Energetics, Valleyfield (the IMR manufacturer). I suspect today's Accurate-4350 available in the US (but not here) is IMR-4350 under a different label. (Of the other Explosia powders being imported to you by Shooters World, SO62 - forget its SW designation - is the old AA-4064 of the pre Western Powders period and is exactly what IMR-4064 does. An excellent 308 Win powder for instance in mid-pressure general match and hunting loads.)

IME you'll be disappointed if you expect H4350 performance though. SO70 is a competent performer but not outstanding whilst H4350 is (alongside Europe's RS62) the class leader in terms of the velocity / pressure relationship and flexibility.
 
Wrote to Reload Swiss and they Kindly sent me some simulation data which I’m having trouble posting.

bryn
 
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Bryn & Laurie

Have you looked at Alliant Reloder 16 and 17?

RL-16 in particular has been generating some rave reviews in 6.5 Creedmoor down here. I sat side-by-side with my hunting buddy with his identical Creedmoor last week, he loaded 50 143gr ELD-X with RL-16 and I was mightily impressed with both accuracy and velocity, which was an effortless half-MOA and close to 150fps faster than my hot load of H4350. With no presures signs, whereas my H4350 load is borderline. As a medium range hunting load, the accuracy and velocity combined with very high sectional density of the heavy 6.5mm projectile is absolutely deadly. This switch was motivated by a guy I know who builds his own rifles and published a load development process that had quite remarkable results with RL-16.

RL-17 has also been experimented with, though I don’t have firsthand experience of the outcomes. I am hearing positive vibes though.

Also, as a wildcard, the slow RL-26 is getting some support, though the loads are quite compressed. But very fast.

All testing with the above powders was done with SR Lapua and Peterson brass.

Just noting here that I got told off for mentioning the powder weight which I won’t do, suffice to say it was over book max.

Another thing to mention is that the increased velocity with RL-16 means 18” and 20” Creedmoor barrels are performing at the same speed as 24” with H4350.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I think the way forward at the minute is to try the RS62. The reload data I got from Reload Swiss says to start at 40g of powder and work up from there. I must say this seems a little high as beginning load and I think that 37 or 38g seems to be the safer bet.

bryn
 
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Bryn & Laurie

Have you looked at Alliant Reloder 16 and 17?

RL-16 in particular has been generating some rave reviews in 6.5 Creedmoor down here. I sat side-by-side with my hunting buddy with his identical Creedmoor last week, he loaded 50 143gr ELD-X with RL-16 and I was mightily impressed with both accuracy and velocity, which was an effortless half-MOA and close to 150fps faster than my hot load of H4350. With no presures signs, whereas my H4350 load is borderline. As a medium range hunting load, the accuracy and velocity combined with very high sectional density of the heavy 6.5mm projectile is absolutely deadly. This switch was motivated by a guy I know who builds his own rifles and published a load development process that had quite remarkable results with RL-16.

RL-17 has also been experimented with, though I don’t have firsthand experience of the outcomes. I am hearing positive vibes though.

Also, as a wildcard, the slow RL-26 is getting some support, though the loads are quite compressed. But very fast.

All testing with the above powders was done with SR Lapua and Peterson brass.

Just noting here that I got told off for mentioning the powder weight which I won’t do, suffice to say it was over book max.

Another thing to mention is that the increased velocity with RL-16 means 18” and 20” Creedmoor barrels are performing at the same speed as 24” with H4350.

We don't get Re16, 17, 23, or 26 in the UK (although we do get Re17 under another name in that it is Reload Swiss RS60 - the 'hot high-energy' variant of RS62 - with an Alliant label stuck on). Re17/RS60 gets a lot of use here and some people love it, but I'm a bit wary after maybe six or seven years experience with it as it really does hammer barrels if full use is made of available velocities and it can prove inconsistent in some combinations.

There is talk that having lost most Hodgdon and IMR grades, Edgar Bros which is also our Alliant importer may add the various missing grades from the range - AR-Comp and Re16 are the ones I would most like to try having seen the US reports on them. Edgars hasn't added any new Alliant grades to its orders / product lists for several years, although three of them come direct to us from their Swiss manufacturer anyway as RS grades. So, it is the new Swedish grades with 'TZ' technology from Bofors in Karlskoga that really interest us as new high-performance, temperature insensitive products. That is AR-Comp, Re16 and Re23. Re26 may interest some magnum users too and although it is made by Nitrochemie (the Reload Swiss manufacturer) in Switzerland isn't available here as an RS grade.

I don't know if Alliant's MR range is Reach compliant. (They come from the same source as Hodgdon 'spherical' powders, the former Olin Industries plant in St. Marks Florida. Some of the newer Hodgdon / St. Marks powders are Reach tested and passed - Hodgdon Li'l Gun, CFE-223, and CFE-BLK, the rest are non-compliant hence the loss of H335, BL-C(2), H414 etc.)
 
Thanks for the replies so far. I think the way forward at the minute is to try the RS62. The reload data I got from Reload Swiss says to start at 40g of powder and work up from there. I must say this seems a little high as beginning load and I think that 37 or 38g seems to be the safer bet.

bryn

What is the application, Bryn? Hunting or targets?

I started low with mine to break in the barrel and was stunned at the one hole (literally) accuracy that I got with soft loads, i.e. Hornady book starting loads. I worked up right through to book max and beyond, and never quite replicated the soft load accuracy. For ***** and giggles I recently loaded 5 rounds at book minimum and tried again. Same result, overlapping 6.5mm holes in the plywood.

Having said that, word of advice, never start a load development process lower than book minimum. You can read up on the reasons why.
 
Laurie's point RE SRP brass is very pertinent, so anyone reading my UKV posts will need to account for that. His suggestion on load reduction is about spot on...actually, it's closer to 1.5 grn than 1 grn with RS62 IME. To be fair, I DID state "usual caveats applied"! ;)
 
6.5 Creedmoor Reloading

Over the past 2 days I have just finished working up a load for my 6.5 Creedmoor which is a Remington Magpul Stock with a 22inch heavy barrel.

Brass Once fired Hornady sized to 1.910
Primer Fed Large Match
Powder RS 62
Round Hornady 143g ELDX

The max COL was 2.844 which gave a Hornady Lock and Load Bullet Comparator Length of 2.200.

Load
38g 2265fps
38.5g 2268fps
39g 2320fps
39.5g 2357fps
40g 2425fps

With the above I only shot 2 rounds as I knew that regardless of how accurate they would be I wanted to push the round beyond those speeds, so this was more an exercise in safety having took some advice.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Load
40.5g 2440fps 1 moa
41g 2460fps 1 moa
41.5g 2515fps 1 moa
42g 2560fps 1.5 moa
42.5g 2575fps 1 moa
43g 2620fps ¾ moa
43.5g Not fired
44g 2700 ½ moa

With the above I fired 3 rounds with a view to hopefully finding the node which looked like 44g.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I then worked up a load in the region of the 44g. However, I did not chronograph these as I was in the region I wanted to be and I forgot to bring it with me.
I fired 4 rounds per load.

Load
43g 1 moa
43.3g ½ moa
43.6g ½ moa
43.9g ½ moa
44g ¼ moa
44.2g ½ moa
44.5g 1 moa.

The 2 loads of 44.2 to 44.5 were compressed.

I observed no over pressure signs and now intend to load up at least 10 rounds at the 44g to confirm the accuracy and will coronagraph these as well (if I remember).


bryn
 
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It doesn't surprise me at all to see your best groups around the 44gr load region. Your velocities are also bob-on what I'd expect for that load.

Almost every bullet from 139 to 143 I have seen load developed using the same powder/case combo delivers the goods at around 44gr RS62. It's a reliable go-to load (usual caveats applying of course) as is between 42.5 and 43gr for the LRP brass option. If possible, see what your ES figures are for the 5 shot groups either side of 44gr. The lowest value would indicate your least pressure sensitive load which is the one to pick.

For anyone else reading this and thinking about using the same load for their LR brass....don't go there. As Laurie's stated earlier, SRP brass will show significantly higher pressures due to the energy of ignition differences between the small and large primers.

Also worth noting that many people have reported primer piercing when using CCI400 or other "standard" small rifle primers with similar loads. Don't use standard primers with this combination is the best advice as pressures may well develop beyond what's safe for their rating. Use thicker cup designs such as the magnum variants and you'll have no problems.
 
Really useful info guys. I'm going to be switching to RS62 as I can't reliably source Ramshot Hunter anymore so this is all good to help me get up and running.
 
Take a look at Alliant RL-16 nun-hunter, assuming it is available where you are. It is REACH compliant.

RL-16 is delivering outstanding accuracy and velocity for a growing number of Creedmoor shooters here, with very low ES numbers. It is so successful it is getting very hard to find the powder now.

For example my one buddy’s 20” Rem 700 custom job is giving a reliable 2900fps and tiny little groups. He was up around 3000fps before he chopped the barrel from 24”.

I haven’t bothered switching from H4350 because the gains from 2800 to 2900 aren’t worth the whole load development process but if I was starting again with a new rifle I wouldn’t hesitate to select RL-16.
 
Shot off 5 rounds today as per above at 44g of RS 62 and this is what they came in at

1, 2653fps
2, 2708
3, 2691
4, 2698
5, 2680

It was a 1/4 MOA group with one slight flyer which I suppose turned it into a 1/2 MOA group I think that was me pulling one.

Bryn
 
Take a look at Alliant RL-16 nun-hunter, assuming it is available where you are. It is REACH compliant.

RL-16 is delivering outstanding accuracy and velocity for a growing number of Creedmoor shooters here, with very low ES numbers. It is so successful it is getting very hard to find the powder now.

For example my one buddy’s 20” Rem 700 custom job is giving a reliable 2900fps and tiny little groups. He was up around 3000fps before he chopped the barrel from 24”.

I haven’t bothered switching from H4350 because the gains from 2800 to 2900 aren’t worth the whole load development process but if I was starting again with a new rifle I wouldn’t hesitate to select RL-16.

Not imported into the UK as yet. Hopefully, some time in the near future.
 
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