Bow hunting V Rifle hunting debate;

[howa243]

Contemporary Wounding Rate Research:

R. W. Aho – Michigan Dept. of Natural Resources: 1.4 wounded deer for each deer killed.

Horace Gore – Whitetail Project Director, Texas Parks and Wildlife Department: One deer wounded for each deer killed.

Survey by Deer & Deer Hunting Magazine: (N = 2,103): 1.13 deer wounded for each deer killed.

Gayle Wescott – Michigan State University: Observed one deer wounded for each deer killed (N=51 wounded, N=51 Killed).

Its okay. I think they may be lying.

 

[mchughcb]

Air rifles and shotgun pellets on rabbits hardly deliver hydraulic shock. Any more than a 416 remington does on a buff. Yet they kill nor are they banned. Most things are legislated on emotion long before any empirical evidence is supplied. Lets be very clear, bow hunting versus thermal optics, rifle culling. The former is very happy to get a deer and celebrates success. The latter posts comes up with a plethora of reasons of why nobody should engage on the former.

Bow hunting is legal here on deer far larger than British red deer and the minimum rifle calibres required are also larger for reds. Who's right or wrong depends on whether you are a half full or empty type of person but to talk in absolutes by watching free YouTube videos hardly qualifies as a supporting evidence.

 

[landkeeper]

My grandad used to have a saying ,there's non so blind as them that can't see !

 

[howa243]

My grandad used to have a saying ,there's non so blind as them that can't see !

Agreed.

 

[nun_hunter]

These figures represent striking energy for a compound bow 70lbs draw weight using 360-500 grain arrows - 75 ft lbs (max) at 25-35 yds and a .308 rifle at 300yds

Errr no. We are talking about animal welfare. There is no other consideration here whatsoever. So at the distance one might use a bow, would any other legally available weapon be as good or better. My contention is that the answer is yes and that the statistics prove this. Jesus why dont folk just say I want to bow hunt, therefore I bow hunt and not try to make it sound effective.

What rifle cartridge do you use to hunt? If it's purely about animal welfare I assume you only use a very large cartridge with lots of energy and a bullet that causes massive amounts of damage to guarantee instant death? 338 Lapua Magnum with a frangible bullet? Obviously you wouldn't use anything smaller because that wouldn't be the most humane death? Meat wastage isn't an issue as long as it is the closest guaranteed instant death?

 

[shakey jake]

Agreed there are issues. Do you have a better option for shooting birds on the wing?

why shoot on the wing? is because you want to or it makes you feel better, i fail to see a reason to shoot a flying bird that benefits the bird, all about reducing the chance of suffering
shakey

 

[howa243]

What rifle cartridge do you use to hunt? If it's purely about animal welfare I assume you only use a very large cartridge with lots of energy and a bullet that causes massive amounts of damage to guarantee instant death? 338 Lapua Magnum with a frangible bullet? Obviously you wouldn't use anything smaller because that wouldn't be the most humane death? Meat wastage isn't an issue as long as it is the closest guaranteed instant death?

Oh dear!

why shoot on the wing? is because you want to or it makes you feel better, i fail to see a reason to shoot a flying bird that benefits the bird, all about reducing the chance of suffering
shakey

Errm, no. Thats not the reason. I fail to see a reason for shooting the bird that benefits the bird?

 

[landkeeper]

Agreed.

I expected you would

 

[mchughcb]

why shoot on the wing? is because you want to or it makes you feel better, i fail to see a reason to shoot a flying bird that benefits the bird, all about reducing the chance of suffering
shakey

Agreed. I try and wait until the bird has landed, stationary and broadside at 30 yards before i unless a 3" , 57gr load of #4 in my full choke. Boy do they kick but at least the bird is dead right there and didn't suffer.

 

[howa243]

I expected you would

What else could I do? I post some stuff from internet saying that wounding rates are high and I dont get rebuttals with statistics proving the value of this method of dispatching an animal, I get but you dont use a howitzer do you. lol. I post some horrendous videos to counter those already posted and the comments are well there are loads of videos that prove anything. Bril. I know that, which is why I am posting these.

 

[User00047]

So we’re looking at wounding rate statistics from the USA that has populations of hunters who are experienced and perhaps qualified as well, shooting at whitetails that are bigger than most of our U.K. species.
I’d be interested to see how the rate would look if you studied inexperienced British guys, shooting arrows at our twitchy little muntjac.

 

[howa243]

Agreed. I try and wait until the bird has landed, stationary and broadside at 30 yards before i unless a 3" , 57gr load of #4 in my full choke. Boy do they kick but at least the bird is dead right there and didn't suffer.

Good to hear a fair and reasonable approach to hunting for birds. I shall moderate my methodology straight away. I used to be pretty good at throwing the javelin. maybe its time to reacquaint myself with the discipline. Am looking to see if there are any successful spear hunts on youtube and if so shall write to my MP straight away.

 

[howa243]

So we’re looking at wounding rate statistics from the USA that has populations of hunters who are experienced and perhaps qualified as well, shooting at whitetails that are bigger than most of our U.K. species.
I’d be interested to see how the rate would look if you studied inexperienced British guys, shooting arrows at our twitchy little muntjac.

Yes indeed, lets try and compare like with like.

 

[shakey jake]

any reply to me howa?

 

[howa243]

any reply to me howa?

post 267?

 

[Jagare]

So we’re looking at wounding rate statistics from the USA that has populations of hunters who are experienced and perhaps qualified as well, shooting at whitetails that are bigger than most of our U.K. species.
I’d be interested to see how the rate would look if you studied inexperienced British guys, shooting arrows at our twitchy little muntjac.

How can there be a comparison between the US and the UK. I'm sure that there are many excellent bow hunters in the US and I'm sure they have plenty of bow hunters who are rubbish shots. In the UK its illegal to shoot deer with a bow so no comparison can be made.

 

[mchughcb]

Good to hear a fair and reasonable approach to hunting for birds. I shall moderate my methodology straight away. I used to be pretty good at throwing the javelin. maybe its time to reacquaint myself with the discipline. Am looking to see if there are any successful spear hunts on youtube and if so shall write to my MP straight away.

Hunting with spears and woomeras are completely different to throwing javelin in competition. Ive done both. Get yourself a set of the former and you might surprise yourself.

 

[howa243]

For the sake of clarification, can we just limit the conversation to considering the relative merits of the different weapons at the range at which a bow may be considered usable. Pointing out that people miss with a rifle more, when taking targets beyond 150 metres is really pointless. What we need to know is why one would reach for a bow rather than a rifle to shoot something at bow hunting range. I am taking this to be 30 meters because this seems to be the distance that people seem able to justify it at and that it gets more difficult beyond that.

 

[howa243]

Hunting with spears and woomeras are completely different to throwing javelin in competition. Ive done both. Get yourself a set of the former and you might surprise yourself.

Surprise myself to the extent that I would think it a viable method of dispatch or....?

 

[mchughcb]

Ok so my arthritis is kicking in my shoulder and the days of bothering to pull 50# on a ben pearson recurve are long done. However i also used to hunt with crossbows. The latest compound crossbows look good to ne and capable of outstanding accuracy well past 30 yards. Any reason why someone with basic rifle skills shouldn't hunt deer with one?