Thankyou Clive,I won't be returning mine.Hi Hammo,
Sorry I didn't see a question.
There could be quite a difference as the Dark Engine uses different bodies, lenses, pill design and components, etc.
The Dark Engine is smaller and lighter than anything else of this type on the market.
There are no artefacts in the beam of the Dark Engine either. It's completely even.
Performance and reach isn't lacking. As the videos show we are getting out to 400+m shootable image at high magnifications even with an add on behind a day scope that has quite poor response to IR. With a decent add on like our Ward D Vision 800L it's getting out 600+m. With a dedicated scope it will go a lot further than that.
I don't think anyone will be disappointed in buying one. But having said that anyone who's not happy can always return it to us within 14 days for a full refund anyway.
Cheers
Clive
Black Sun Dark Engine IR
- Thread starter Clive Ward
- Start date
WDV700
well mine arived very fast post i tested it with a gen2+ dep tubed xd14 and a sightron s3 i compared it to a dipol l3 lazer a t75 led well weather was not very good not the best time to be testing a new bit of kit but hell lets go for it well clives unit is what looks like a t20 with a total difrent head unit and a lazer diode rather than the standard led now i have had a standard t20 which on a good day was ok for mabey 200yards how far would clives unit go well lets find out the good and the bad i set all three units on a wall pointed at wait for it 500yards can they go that far well the l3 went that far but was having real problems with the light drissel and was focused right down the down side to this is tube burn and there was lots of relecting light coming back now a l3 costs 250pounds so not cheep the t75 was next same distance nice easey view but was not cutting it at that distance and was using the twin battery pack front lenze started to dew up as there is a lot off glass there then theres the size of the thing but that aside for the price about 60bills it had some good points bad bits are heavey head wobles two batteres to get the same power out put as the l3 ok crunch time how would clive unit stand up well to be honest it did not disapoint it was light got to 500yards ran on one battery and focused in and out with half a turn and was not loose what impresed me most was the lazer gave a near identical nice soft view with no spots blemishes in the beam very like the t75 but half the waight hafe the size and out powering it on one battery there is a slight glare coming back of my gun this would be sorted by simpley putting a bit of tube over the front of the unit it may not be a problem on other rifles mine has a ss silver barrel so is prone to this over all im impresed with clives unit it gave no indication of going to damage my n/v tube gave a very clean view runs a long time on one battery and can go a long way out there never got the chance to try on foxes so cant coment yet if they can see the beam all tests were mag set at 12 distance from 200yards to 500 yards at closer rainges i experienced no flare back from the ground or other objects overal worked very well with my set up it may perform even better on other night vision units but as no two night vision units are the same you will have to come to your own conclusions on what works best on your unit on my unit its a keeper well done clive keep moving forward just for the record i dont know clive ward but il be making a point of contacting him to see what other stuff i may be intrested in night vision just keeps getting better
I would say that the Dark Engine just has the edge over the SRX, but there`s nothing in it. It is smaller/lighter and cheaper, but does not have the illuminated tail switch.
.243Ady
Well-Known Member
How does it match up to the Sirius XTL.....
Not in the same ball park at all, the Sirius XTL is more powerful...
Really? Is that from a side by side comparison?
Anyway we've designed the Dark Engine to be on the very top end of what is pretty much completely safe for customers to use, without taking any special precautions or having to worry about laser safety regulations.
We could have made it brighter and did indeed experiment with larger lens systems and more power, but the end result was unsafe and certainly not suitable for consumer purchase.
It's a bit of a moot point because the finished product will get out to 700+ yards even with a relatively low IR sensitivity add on such as the PARD NV007.
Plus it's the smallest, lightest and cheapest high power IR available.
Cheers
Clive
What grinds me Clive is you gave Trevor who brought out the Solaris SRX out lots of grief over using a laser, saying they were not eye safe, systems didn’t need a laser , LED is all that was needed on many occasions and that you had tried them and would not sell them ..
Then you see the sucess of the Solaris SRX , sudden loss in sales and totally change your game plan and you decide lasers are now great and you start using the same old sales blurb you did on the black suns, stating selected bin pills, special machined this, absolute verbal diarrhoea more fool any mug who falls for it...
Now the cat is out of the bag with the new style Laser diodes there’s a lot selling them, so there’s a quite a choice and yes REALLY the Sirius is more powerful than yours, or do you doubt that ?
Then you see the sucess of the Solaris SRX , sudden loss in sales and totally change your game plan and you decide lasers are now great and you start using the same old sales blurb you did on the black suns, stating selected bin pills, special machined this, absolute verbal diarrhoea more fool any mug who falls for it...
Now the cat is out of the bag with the new style Laser diodes there’s a lot selling them, so there’s a quite a choice and yes REALLY the Sirius is more powerful than yours, or do you doubt that ?
Yes
I haven't tested Clives new blacksun engine, but I have tested the SRX and the Sirius XTL and lets just say that the Sirius is significantly brighter than the SRX.
Cheers
Bruce
Cheers
Bruce
Wow Ian.
It's a shame that you perceive it as that.
I'm pretty sure I have never made any direct comparisons or indeed singled out or mentioned any one single laser illuminator when discussing these. For one manufacturer or reseller to draw direct comparisons or make negative comments about another's product would be pretty crass and amateur at best, so I'm careful never to do it myself.
I've never given anyone any 'grief' as you put it. It's actually the other way around. This stems from me once again mentioning my genuine concerns about the safety of 'ALL' of these new lasers last August on another forum. Predictably it was scoffed at by yourself and other people wishing to line their pockets selling these new wonder lasers, or mates thereof. But interestingly, one manufacturer very quickly changed their publicised specification.
Once, as I predicted, it turned into a brightness race by people having no clue what they were putting together or the dangerous power outputs they were achieving we put a few test units together to see just how dangerous they could be made to help others understand what they were buying, because it was clear the people selling them had no idea. We have several specialist instruments to test power output so it was a very quick process for us.
Very quickly and easily we came up with a unit that was very dangerous indeed, but would see an unnecessarily far distance. Again that information was met with more immediate scoffery from...guess where?
All this nonsense and trolling actually made me look much closer into the regulations, product safety specs, biological exposure limits, etc. far more deeply than I ever would have otherwise. It was after this that I realised it was possible to make a laser based illuminator with more than enough power, that is no more dangerous to use than a standard LED illuminator. So the Dark Engine was born. Bearing in mind that the Dark Engine will get out to 700+ yards even with a rubbish add on, it bears the question...is a more powerful IR really necessary? The Dark Engine is also the smallest, lightest and cheapest of these new illuminators.
Just touching on what you call "absolute verbal diarrhoea" regarding our Black Sun pills. If you made something out of top drawer components, with the best design and careful controlled manufacturing process to make the absolute highest quality, most efficient and best performing product possible...I'm sure you would also mention that as a benefit to your customers and be rightly proud of it as we are. Otherwise it could be something slapped together from any old tat on someone's kitchen table.
Cheers
Clive
Clive,
Is it now your position that vcsel based laser illuminators CAN be made that are no more dangerous than LED based illuminators ?
If so, I'm delighted, because this is what I've been saying since these lasers first started to appear.
It's obviously the case that these vcsel lasers CAN be made to produce more power than may be legal, but it has always been my view that they are far less dangerous than the previous generation of edge emitting lasers.
Even a momentary, inadvertent exposure to one of the old edge emitting lasers was potentially dangerous
With the current crop of vcsel based IR illuminators the risks are greatly reduced and even a exposure of a few seconds at only a few inches distance from the laser source will not cause eye damage - and I speak from personal experience!!
I am not an expert in the relevant legislation, but it appears to me that current legislation deals with edge emititng lasers producing pencil thin beams of coherent light
The vcsels used in the new generation of laser illuminators do not produce their light in the same way
The beams are always much larger in diameter, and the light is not coherent.
IMHO, the power density in a beam of light from a vcsel powered IR illuminator is much much lower than in the pencil beam from the prvious generation edge emitting laser
As is often the case with new, emerging technologies, legislation that suited a previous generation technology, is not directly applicable to the new technology
Cheers
Bruce
Is it now your position that vcsel based laser illuminators CAN be made that are no more dangerous than LED based illuminators ?
If so, I'm delighted, because this is what I've been saying since these lasers first started to appear.
It's obviously the case that these vcsel lasers CAN be made to produce more power than may be legal, but it has always been my view that they are far less dangerous than the previous generation of edge emitting lasers.
Even a momentary, inadvertent exposure to one of the old edge emitting lasers was potentially dangerous
With the current crop of vcsel based IR illuminators the risks are greatly reduced and even a exposure of a few seconds at only a few inches distance from the laser source will not cause eye damage - and I speak from personal experience!!
I am not an expert in the relevant legislation, but it appears to me that current legislation deals with edge emititng lasers producing pencil thin beams of coherent light
The vcsels used in the new generation of laser illuminators do not produce their light in the same way
The beams are always much larger in diameter, and the light is not coherent.
IMHO, the power density in a beam of light from a vcsel powered IR illuminator is much much lower than in the pencil beam from the prvious generation edge emitting laser
As is often the case with new, emerging technologies, legislation that suited a previous generation technology, is not directly applicable to the new technology
Cheers
Bruce
Hi Bruce,
Yes they can indeed and have been such as the large format VCSEL behind the small aspheric lens on the PARD units, and now the Dark Engine.
Having said that even once you design to take the IR out of the Laser Safety regulations, it then falls into another set of regulations, again with it's own power limits exposure levels and specific test criteria. Again if you overdo it, it becomes and unsafe product, illegal for sale.
I would be very careful about advising that they are ALL safe for quick close range exposure. A quick blip from the PARD built in IR or the Dark Engine will be harmless, however I can't say the same for units using higher power or more collimated beams. That could be immediately and permanently injurious.
The human eye and skin for that matter, can only handle so much IR radiation before it is permanently damaged, either short term or long term exposure and with the VCSEL it is very easy to exceed this threshold without being able to take correct measurements. It doesn't have to be a tight collimated pencil beam like the older edge emitters to cause damage is the point I am making.
Cheers
Clive
have to chip in hear i have never used the srx ot the sirius xtc what i can say is this do we nead iluminators to go beyond 500yards who the hell shoots that far at night clives unit tested by myself got to 500yards and gave a good image for the price its a fair unit simple to use light runs on one battery and will not burn my retenas out why do i nead to spend another 60bills for very little returns over clives unit we are suposed to be shooters not night time snipers this ****ing contest is not doing us eney good im sure clive and the other desighners put a fair bit off money in to there products so lets enjoy them without all the bickering lads it brings the tone off the site down
Orion
Well-Known Member
Backstop - and not the EU type.
Try an SRX or XTL or similar and you may be surprised at the benefits they bring, and it’s not just about range.
The main benefit of these new laser illuminators (SRX, XTL, blacksun engine) is that they produce enough light for full HD sensors to work effectively at the same sort of ranges that LEDs work with low resolution (but high sensitivity) sensors.
The PARD NV007 add-on and NV008 digital scope and the ATN X sight 4K scope all have high definition sensors that can produce levels of detail unobtainable from the traditional cameras used for NV.
However, these high definition sensors are not particularly sensitive to IR light compared to traditional low resolution sensors.
The new laser illuminators produce enough light to get these high definition sensors working well and producing the high quality images they were designed for
Cheers
Bruce
The PARD NV007 add-on and NV008 digital scope and the ATN X sight 4K scope all have high definition sensors that can produce levels of detail unobtainable from the traditional cameras used for NV.
However, these high definition sensors are not particularly sensitive to IR light compared to traditional low resolution sensors.
The new laser illuminators produce enough light to get these high definition sensors working well and producing the high quality images they were designed for
Cheers
Bruce
Why not stick to LED then, if power is not required ?
why sell lazer iluminators if led is better like every one else bud yourself clive etc bring out new stuff if you dont want eney one to purchase them why manufacture them
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