TO ALL DOG OWNERS THAT VACCINATE THEIR DOGS - PLEASE READ

Dodder

Well-Known Member
On Saturday morning 8th June shortly after being taken for her normal walk, our normally healthy but aging nicely bitch who had just turned 12, started being violently sick and looking generally unwell.

Sunday 9th June she was no better and would not eat at all and when she drunk then vomited it up and slowly came progressively worse as time went on with very laboured breathing. We took her to an emergency vets where she was kept in overnight, given antibiotics, pain relief, blood tests and put on a drip. We mentioned to the vet that she had recently had her annual vaccinations and that a different make had been used and asked whether this could be a contributory factor but he absolutely dismissed this. We were then advised to collect her at 07.30hrs the next day to transfer her to our own vets for further treatment.

Monday 10th June we then transferred her to our normal vets where emergency treatment continued. We were subsequently advised mid-afternoon that the scans and X-rays had not shown any major problems with her organs but that the Liver results (enzymes?) were ‘way off the scale’ and that there may been pancreatitis. In their opinion it was time to put her to sleep due to the fact there was very little chance of recovery and they believed she was in considerable pain. We collected her, brought her to be back at home for her last few hours and the vet then came out later that evening 8pm to put her to sleep for the last time.

This was all very sudden, as she had previously been in relatively good health and has been a real shock to the whole family. We couldn’t understand how it had happened so quickly and something just didn’t seem ‘right’. I was just starting to get over this when my partner hit me with the bombshell last night…. She had done some research and apparently there is significant evidence regarding issues with a ‘new’ vaccine Nobivac L4.

When we checked our dog’s vaccination records she had since being born been given Canigen Lepto 2 vaccine with no issues. She was vaccinated this year on 1st May with Nobivac L4 and Nobivac DHP and our vet had told me this was a ‘new and better vaccine’ and she would have to come again for another Nobivac L4 dose exactly 4 weeks later on 29th May. This I did and 10 days later she fell ill and within 48hrs was dead…

We have found lots of evidence online suggesting that this vaccine can cause adverse reactions particularly with the immune system and even death. One report stated elevated Liver enzymes (sound familiar?) and another post we found was from a lady stating her dog died ‘5 weeks after having the L4 vaccine and 1 week after the top-up’ (again sound familiar?). There were articles in the press in the Telegraph but apparently the BMA have dismissed these as ‘scaremongering’.

So, I am writing this as a warning to anyone about to have their dog vaccinated to consider very carefully which vaccine they use. We have lost a much loved pet well before her time and to make matters worse, have to carry the guilt that we were probably inadvertently responsible. To add insult to injury, the emergency vet’s bill was £900 (paid) and our vet’s bill is expected to be similar – this has yet to be paid and right now I feel so angry we might just end up seeing them in court.

I would also like to hear from anyone who may have had a similar experience or if there are any vets on here who are willing to get in touch with me to discuss I would be eternally grateful. We KNOW this vaccine killed our dog, but I suspect we will never be able to prove it. My suspicion is that our vet possibly switched to this new vaccine for cost reasons and it would be lovely to be able to find out if the Nobivac is significantly cheaper than the Canigen?
 
I’m sorry to hear about your loss. I just got a new terrier who wasn’t given canigen lento 2 for his first injection at a vets in Carlisle then when I tried to get him booker in down here they all had novivak 4 so couldn’t do another canigen. Local vet gave me a lecture on lepto 4 etc got so fed up of them peddling crap to me ended up driving two hours back to the original vets. There’s quite a bit online so I am sure you will be able to find others in the same unfortunate position.
 
Firstly sorry for your loss. Lepto 4 has taken many a dog from its owner. There is no need to vaccinate a dog every year, it has been proven that it does more harm than good. Vets have a legal obligation to care for our animals not kill them and in pretty sure they all know that vaccinations yearly are not good but its money in their pockets, same with insurance companies insisting that they are vaccinated yearly or risk not being payed out on any claims. Pet plan stopped answering my questions when I challenged them on this matter.
 
The only reason we vaccinate every year is that kennels require it - I do try not to Kennel our dogs (always seems like sending them to prison) but sometimes you have to. Not sure we will ever vaccinate our 3yr old boy ever again...
 
The only reason we vaccinate every year is that kennels require it - I do try not to Kennel our dogs (always seems like sending them to prison) but sometimes you have to. Not sure we will ever vaccinate our 3yr old boy ever again...
Surely if you had a tita test, "think that's how its spelt" done and this shows sufficient amounts of the vaccine in your dog that a kennel should accept this.
 
Sorry for your loss. Despite internet rumour to the contrary, there is no statistically different adverse reaction rate to the L4 vaccine compared to the L2. Vaccine reactions are extremely rare relative to the tens of thousands of doses used every day. It would be very unusual for a vaccine reaction to present in this way, whereas sudden onset liver damage and pancreatitis are not uncommon to see in practice.
 
Surely if you had a tita test, "think that's how its spelt" done and this shows sufficient amounts of the vaccine in your dog that a kennel should accept this.
Titre tests don’t work for leptospirosis, due to the different way immunity to this works. A significant number of dogs struggle to generate immunity to Lepto that will last a year, hence annual vaccines for lepto are always recommended, whereas immunity for other diseases may last years.
 
Titre tests don’t work for leptospirosis, due to the different way immunity to this works. A significant number of dogs struggle to generate immunity to Lepto that will last a year, hence annual vaccines for lepto are always recommended, whereas immunity for other diseases may last years.
Fair point thanks for that
 
Many vets are now only offering the Lepto 4 option. A chap who had a GSP pup from me lost a previous healthy young GSP, in his mind, to Lepto 4.

My vet assures me there is no issue using Lepto 4 but this still does concern me.
 
I'm sure there are videos of vets saying that its dodgy. one was American in a conference, he said its killing dogs and you want me to knowingly administer it, and the person leading it all basically told him yes you do
 
My dog (recently lost for other reasons) rejected badly every time he was vaccinated. Extreme diarrhoea but for only last lasted 24 hrs
 
I was just flicking through this, BUT THEN I spotted the full wording Leptospirosis, as opposed to just Lep4 or L4 .... I worked in the waste water industry for a good few years, the medico's in the screening & jabs for Tetanus / Hep A / Hep B etc said categorically that no immunisation against Leptospirosis (Wiels disease)was available, .... So are canine's immunised?
 
Dodder - first off, genuinely sorry for your loss.

There are a few things that I'd like to comment on in this thread - none of these are absolutes but merely food for thought.

Whilst L4 vaccines have received bad press, I think it's important to know the numbers involved. The L2 vaccine has a reported adverse reaction rate of 2 in 10,000 dogs. The L4 vaccine adverse reaction rate is 7 in 10,000. So clearly there is a (very slightly) higher risk using the L4 vaccine. The question is - is it worth it? Leptospirosis is a very serious, and not uncommon disease to see in the dog population in this country - I have seen many, and some have been successfully treated, and some have died. The L4 vaccine will provide better protection against the various strains of lepto than the L2 vaccine. Whilst I have seen dogs with lepto, and seen dogs die of lepto, I have never seen a dog have a reaction to L4 (that I am aware of).

Other than the reaction rates, all of that information is totally anecdotal (i.e the lowest 'level' of evidence) and fundamentally it has to be the choice of the owner (in conjunction with their vet) as to which risk is worse - the risk of lepto as a disease or the risk of an adverse vaccine reaction. I can't answer that on anyones behalf other than my own. And my dog gets L4 once a year.

To the other comments about not needing to vaccinate your dog annually - it has already been explained why that isn't the case for lepto vaccines, but almost all vets now only vaccinate dogs for the DHP part of a vaccine every three years now, in line with the current recommendations.

To the comment that vaccines 'have been proven to do more harm than good' - please can you send me this evidence? Diseases that were once very common (such as distemper and canine infectious hepatitis) are basically never seen anymore - this is solely due to 'herd' immunity within the UK domestic dog population. There is ample evidence that vaccines do lots of good (with recognised risks), but I would be genuinely interested to see if you have evidence to the contrary.

Finally, there is a chance that your dog may have had a concurrent health problem that was undiagnosed and this come to clinical evidence following their vaccination. This is very very hard to prove, but also very hard to disprove.

I am not trying to preach or tell you what to do. Honestly. Just to say that a lot of these things are very grey, rather than black and white. Comments posted online without evidence are ofter repeated, and these can occasionally do great harm.

Most importantly, again, sorry for your loss.

HT
 
Dodders, very sorry for your loss. I've had my bitch on L4 since birth with no problems. This is standard for Germany. When I spoke to my UK vet about L4 she interestingly mentioned research at Bristol university into Lepto, and Alabama Rot and how they think its related. Maybe another vet can shed some light?
 
Dodders, very sorry for your loss. I've had my bitch on L4 since birth with no problems. This is standard for Germany. When I spoke to my UK vet about L4 she interestingly mentioned research at Bristol university into Lepto, and Alabama Rot and how they think its related. Maybe another vet can shed some light?
I’ve not seen any suggested links between the two.
 
Firstly sorry for your loss. Lepto 4 has taken many a dog from its owner. There is no need to vaccinate a dog every year, it has been proven that it does more harm than good. Vets have a legal obligation to care for our animals not kill them and in pretty sure they all know that vaccinations yearly are not good but its money in their pockets, same with insurance companies insisting that they are vaccinated yearly or risk not being payed out on any claims. Pet plan stopped answering my questions when I challenged them on this matter.
Mine get the first jabs then that’s it I don’t send to kennels but get the kids to care for them if I’m away which isn’t often
 
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