How much are willing to pay for your stalking ? and How far are you willing to travel?

[Tulloch]

Over the last few months there has been a lot of emphasis on stalking available.

Leases over day stalks , what do you feel as the most value for money ?

Is a £1200 a year syndicate where you can keep what you shoot worth the travel more than a £2000 a year place that is on your doorstep but your not allowed to keep the deer you shoot and have to adhere to cull pressures? just for example.

I struggle to gauge the industry sometimes,

Stalking has to be paid for somehow whether that is with unpaid time with added pressures or by money with no pressures. I have tried to ask this question on here multiple times and it seems I rarely get a relevant answer which it comes down arguments and personal attacks either on individual companies or business model.

I am going to be honest though here and now , there are some things that do not work or rarely work. Wood owners for instance need a job done or someone to take responsibility for the daily management of their deer and that rarely works if you have a group of "locals" doing the job. All the best syndicate owned properties where the syndicate actively manages the deer or whatever emply a part time or full time keeper who's job is to take the pressure off the syndicate investors, situations where a few "locals" have taken over the management 80% of the time get pushed out and contractors are asked to go in or management firms are asked if they would like, the reason for this is for the owner a job needs done and "locals" real lives get in the way.

I have not started this discussion for a slagging match, I am not interested in hearing how syndicate businesses are making money off stalkers, I don't start complaining when plumbers, joiners, electricians etc are asking wee old ladies for £60 per hour to come and fix a leaky tap or to put in a light switch and I sure as hell don't complain on the Office jockeys who are earning £80k a year for sitting on their ass clicking buttons, all business's have to make money and some make more than others and for you to understand how syndicates really make their money you have to understand the business not the myths and lies that people presume to believe they know.

Crikey I had a guy putting me down on Facebook the other week where every sentence about me was a complete lie , right down to the car I drive,

Simple questions very simple answers

 

[windygun]

Simple answer would be to deactivate your Facebook account and carry on with your life without it. This isn’t a dig or a criticism as athough I have a business page tied to my personal account, I’m about to do the same. D.

 

[Tulloch]

Simple answer would be to deactivate your Facebook account and carry on with your life without it. This isn’t a dig or a criticism as athough I have a business page tied to my personal account, I’m about to do the same. D.

Oh I am not having a gripe I am just trying to gauge what stalkers want ,. it really is hard to tell these days

 

[Chasey]

Surely it depends what you require from your stalking and what you can afford?

We have a permission where the land owner is a deer stalker. But he pretty much ignores the fallow roe and muntjack on his own land and pays £15,000 for a weeks stalking in Scotland on the stags. Which he obviously feels is good value. He got 5 last trip but probably staid in a castle and defo had ghillies and ponies as well as guides.

In comparison we had syndicate members drop out of my syndicate when we were offering 250acres of land roe fallow and muntjack keep what you shoot for free, no limits on days or meet for £450.00 for the fallow seasion. They obviously couldn't afford it or felt it was not worth it.

Personaly I have over 1000 acres to shoot but id still pay £1000 ish to have some muntjac grounds within 150miles of me

I have also happily driven to Scotland (780 miles there and 780 back) for two days on the reds.

If I had no land to shoot id probably be willing to stump up £2500-3000 for a syndicate place within 150miles but I want to keep at least 6 animals a year and get in at least 30 stalks.

 

[mike308]

I am happy to be a syndicate member and have been for the past 29 years, not the same syndicate. This allows me to change ground occasionally and I don't have the worry or hassle of running a syndicate. I'm happy to pay in the region of £1000.00 per year, more if the stalking warrants it and I'm travelling just under 500 miles to my current ground in Scotland. I'm retired now but used to run my own business and I certainly didn't work for nothing, so I wouldn't expect someone like yourself to not earn money from running your syndicates. I have never been a member of any of your syndicates but I follow your adverts and think the prices asked for the stalking are fair. Good luck and keep at it, ignore the wingers.

 

[User00003]

From personal experiences - syndicate places shouldn’t cost more than £500-£750 unless it’s an absolute humdinger, and of course deer shot belong to the stalker.

Most ground I’ve leased exclusively has been around £1,500 pa, and that includes land up to 10,000 acres.

Imho, the notion of £1,500-£2,000 pa as just a syndicate member is sheer lunacy in my book.

For an estate to sell a syndicate at £1,200 or £2,000 pa and may not let the stalker keep the carcasses, and then also hire a pro stalker or use OOS or night licenses is unacceptable in my book..they either set up a syndicate of people they pick well and don’t rip off, and let them get on with it, OR they hire someone to manage their deer. Estates have to accept that income from syndicates comes with the caveat that deer are not really managed, but that the members shoot what they shoot and to live with that.

You can’t have your cake and eat it at the same time imho.

 

[Tulloch]

I am happy to be a syndicate member and have been for the past 29 years, not the same syndicate. This allows me to change ground occasionally and I don't have the worry or hassle of running a syndicate. I'm happy to pay in the region of £1000.00 per year, more if the stalking warrants it and I'm travelling just under 500 miles to my current ground in Scotland. I'm retired now but used to run my own business and I certainly didn't work for nothing, so I wouldn't expect someone like yourself to not earn money from running your syndicates. I have never been a member of any of your syndicates but I follow your adverts and think the prices asked for the stalking are fair. Good luck and keep at it, ignore the wingers.

Thank Mike ,

Putting my own stuff aside though as I am not selling anything in regards to this post. I have seen not just myself getting grief for stalking sales and as I work for someone else it really is their business not mine,

To answer my own questions, being a father of 4 and on a very tight budget earning sub £20k a year open hill stalking and syndicates are far out of my reach . the land I have that has nothing to do with GMS I put hours upon hours of work into in regards to pest control so taking deer is my perk, If it was not for being employed by GMS I probably would only have my own stalking so the work I do for GMS allows me to do a lot I could not do on my own so in that respect I am feel lucky.

IF I had the money though I guess for me a syndicate would be more value for money to me than days stalks, but, arguably as my job is shooting deer right now 2 weeks in the States shooting Coyotes would be worth more money to me than any deer stalking.

After the years of selling syndicates and looking at what other people have to offer it has really opened my eyes in regards to the value for money each placement has. we had one guy last year that shot 28 deer that more than paid for his place and travelling I would suggest for that matter so technically he had free stalking if you look at it like that. So in that respect a syndicate place would be more value to someone on a tight budget like myself.

 

[Chasey]

Stalking is just like any other thing for sale. Its a balance between profit cost and demand

Just quickly looking at our syndicate accounts, we have spent out £18,000 in three years and we have leased equipment valued at another £15,000

I briefly had the opportunity of taking over 1100 acres for 10K and I calculated we'd need 10 stalkers at £1500 a head to break even and hit targets.

No profit involved I mean just to do the job with high seats quads etc etc.

 

[gelert]

Is a £1200 a year syndicate where you can keep what you shoot worth the travel more than a £2000 a year place that is on your doorstep but your not allowed to keep the deer you shoot and have to adhere to cull pressures? just for example.

Paying that much for stalking on your door step and not being able to keep the carcass is pointless imo.
I would rather pay less but have to travel and keep the odd carcass.

I have been fortunate to have been in many syndicates over the years, and had my pants pulled a few times,furthest at a 10 hour drive from home, closest was an hour.All shared the same thing in common, all had deer, and provided I put time in say once a month I'M happy.
I personally don't base my success on the number of beasts I get.
Trips alone over say a weekend amount close to £500 which is guided stalking territory.So half a dozen of those a year and you've made your money.

 

[devon deer stalker]

Simple answer would be to deactivate your Facebook account and carry on with your life without it. This isn’t a dig or a criticism as athough I have a business page tied to my personal account, I’m about to do the same. D.

So true, I have the same, but sadly can't do without it, but once my fly fishing business finishes then so does my FB account.

To the OP, I'm sure you didn't mean to but I guess you might have offended some 'desk jockeys' on this site

I am in the fortunate position that I don't need to be a member of a syndicate, if I wasn't I might consider joining one, but not a 'cull' syndicate, I would want at least a 50% share of the venison and receipts from the guy leasing it so I can claim it back against tax.
Distance, for me a 50 mile round trip would be it.

At the end of the day its a very personal thing, you pay what you can afford based on your own personal circumstances, and the syndicate that is being offered.

Best of luck with this thread!

Cheers

Richard

 

[Chasey]

From personal experiences - syndicate places shouldn’t cost more than £500-£750 unless it’s an absolute humdinger, and of course deer shot belong to the stalker.

Most ground I’ve leased exclusively has been around £1,500 pa, and that includes land up to 10,000 acres.

Imho, the notion of £1,500-£2,000 pa as just a syndicate member is sheer lunacy in my book.

For an estate to sell a syndicate at £1,200 or £2,000 pa and may not let the stalker keep the carcasses, and then also hire a pro stalker or use OOS or night licenses is unacceptable in my book..they either set up a syndicate of people they pick well and don’t rip off, and let them get on with it, OR they hire someone to manage their deer. Estates have to accept that income from syndicates comes with the caveat that deer are not really managed, but that the members shoot what they shoot and to live with that.

You can’t have your cake and eat it at the same time imho.

£1500?????? We pay that for 140 acres we can only shoot two days a week during fallow seasion down south.


We recently looked at some land with a massive head of Sika and Fallow on it. think it was about 2K acres.

There were restrictions on heads trophies etc etc restrictions on the meet and they wanted 30K for the seasion despite the fact they were also selling trophy Sika head days.

We said no but mainly because of the travel distance for managing it. It could easily have made money but id want it on my door step

 

[Freeforester]

I think you made the right choice!

 

[Bigboab29]

For me distance would be the crucial factor. I wouldnt mind a carcass or two but i would much rather be close by to keep an eye on my syndicate, make sure its not being abused by anyone, if i was 4 hours away i'd have no idea what was going on at the ground and i would have to take other peoples word for it, 10 minutes from the front door i could be on the ground every oppertunity its free.

 

[LuckyEddie]

At £1200 a year I’d expect to keep the venison and be able to visit at least once a month so within an hours travelling time either from home or my parents house.

The ground at Aboyne would be very tempting for me but I’m nowhere near fit enough to even consider stalking this year. So will keep an eye on it for next - you never know!

I used to pay £600/pa for stalking over 1500acres with no restrictions apart from letting the lead owner know 48hrs in advance and this was great at 40min from the house. However I took unwell and had to give that up

Ed

 

[Essex stalker]

I don't think there is a simple answer because as others have said its a personal thing and we all have different depth pockets. I have some good stalking in East Anglia where I shoot good numbers of fallow and this doesn't cost me anything however I also pay around £1K a year to belong to a syndicate in Scotland. I don't shoot any where near as many in Scotland as I do in East Anglia so if it was purely done on an economics basis then you could say the Scotland syndicate is a no brainer however for me I simply love being out stalking and walking in Scotland so I'm more than happy to pay to be part of the syndicate as to me its more than just about the number of deer I shoot.
Saying that for me the expensive part of Scottish stalking was ending up buying a small house up there so the wife could come with me and not complain about being cold in a caravan!

 

[Tulloch]

To the OP, I'm sure you didn't mean to but I guess you might have offended some 'desk jockeys' on this site



Richard

I didn't , I still do IT work to pay the bills and in the end everyone does what they have to do to pay the bills.

 

[25 Sharps]

If I had to pay for regular stalking I’d give it up!

 

[jimbo1984]

If I had to pay for regular stalking I’d give it up!

Same here !

 

[Mickeydredd]

I think different people want different things from stalking, hence the reason why we see so much variety in the stalking offered on here in terms of cost, whether guided, syndicate, keep all carcases or keep none etc.

From my perspective, I would prefer to deal with the landowner directly if possible. I currently have a little bit of ground in Cambridgeshire on roe which costs me nothing as the farmer wanted the numbers of roe present reduced. I give him some venison, including sausages that I've made and he is more than happy with our arrangement. I have roe ground in the Borders where again I deal directly with the farmer. I pay for that but sub-let that at no financial gain to a couple of guys as I just cant get up there much these days.

I have been a member of 2 syndicates - one was less than ideal and I've heard lots of other former members complain with similar stories to mine. It was £1,500 for 30 stalks for red and roe and keep all carcases which seems reasonable but the ground was not what was described when viewing (eg I was shown a wood that had loads of evidence of Reds but we weren't allowed to shoot that area!)
The other syndicate was actually quite good in my eyes, £900 pa for Reds/Roe, it was a 5 hour trip which isn't ideal. This syndicate seems to attract a lot of negativety when advertised on here but I thought it was fine.

If I still lived in Perthshire I would have applied for the syndicate near Pitlochry advertised on here for £2.5k + vat. It would have been a 40 minute drive for me plus I get to keep all carcases and there are plenty of deer. I live in Derbyshire/Staffordshire borders now and would love to get on a Fallow/Muntjac syndicate locally but having zero luck on that front.

I would never pay for a guided stalk, I just don't think I would enjoy it. I love being out on my own or with a mate stalking, that's what it is all about for me.

ps I'm one of those desk jockey types. The best advice I was ever given was do not work in the arena that you enjoy as your sport/hobby as there is no money in it generally and it loses its attraction when it is your job. I was advised to get a good paying job and use the money earned to indulge in your hobby/sport. I think therefore that in this respect, the desk jockey has the balance just right.

Cheers
Mike

 

[Erik Hamburger]

In answer to your questions:
1. I am not prepared to pay for my stalking, as I believe I offer my landowners a service. Those landowners that want some venison - not that many do- I will give up to 50% of what I shoot, but in reality they usually want a lot less than that.
2. About 45 Min by car is about the maximum I am prepared to travel to access my stalking - most is within 10-15 Min by car or even within walking distance from home.