Are Syndicates effective?
- Thread starter Husk
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Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
Horses for courses
There is no definitive answer
If it works for you then it works
There is no definitive answer
If it works for you then it works
Nope..
Last year I shot more Fallow per man on a small farm compared to the 4 chaps who's ground surrounds my bit.
Never see them, they have a seat opposite where I stand and the deer cross past it then hop over the boundary and fall down.
No horses just deer
Shootgun
Well-Known Member
I have a lot of my own ground but i'm also a recently joined syndicate member.
It all depends of the members attitude and wether or not they are willing to put the time in or just paying so they can kep their FAC's .
In the previous syndicate i was a member, i was culling a large procentage of the total deer shot and i ended up being acused of greed and not giving the new comers a chance to have a go at a deer, but they rarely been seen of the ground.
In the new syndicate i've been out 5 times in the last 3 weeks since i joined, and i shot 5 deer.
Syndicaates can be effective, subject to the members commitement.
It all depends of the members attitude and wether or not they are willing to put the time in or just paying so they can kep their FAC's .
In the previous syndicate i was a member, i was culling a large procentage of the total deer shot and i ended up being acused of greed and not giving the new comers a chance to have a go at a deer, but they rarely been seen of the ground.
In the new syndicate i've been out 5 times in the last 3 weeks since i joined, and i shot 5 deer.
Syndicaates can be effective, subject to the members commitement.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
You all seem to forget that lots of syndicates don’t have cull figures are are not expected to manage deer numbers effectively. They are there to be charged a sum to be allowed to shoot on that land.
Husk
Active Member
I guess I mean the whole idea of a syndicate, in terms of keeping/getting the deer number to a sustainable level. Surely the businesses plan of a syndicate is the opposite.
HonestJohn
Well-Known Member
Most syndicates I’ve seen have far too many people from far to far away, paying far too much to lien the pockets of the manager/syndicate owner. They shoot the best bucks and leave the small frayers, and don’t show up often in winter when the real cull needs done.
But, there ARE syndicates which are more community based and they work together to achieve a common cause, often mixing memberships on each others grounds - more like DMG’s, but these are rare in comparison.
I have also found that landowners find syndicates a PITA as it’s often random people showing up, parking in the wrong places, not closing gates, etc.
Are they effective? Possibly in reducing deer numbers, but often not the ‘right’ deer.
But, there ARE syndicates which are more community based and they work together to achieve a common cause, often mixing memberships on each others grounds - more like DMG’s, but these are rare in comparison.
I have also found that landowners find syndicates a PITA as it’s often random people showing up, parking in the wrong places, not closing gates, etc.
Are they effective? Possibly in reducing deer numbers, but often not the ‘right’ deer.
Rake Aboot
Well-Known Member
DMG,s are just syndicates imo, just ones with bigger ideas about other folks land.
Heym SR20
Well-Known Member
I think they can be very effective, in the same way that some pheasant shoot syndicates can be very effective. It also very much depends on type of ground and the expectations of the land manager. There have been plenty of good groups / families that have taken the shooting rights over a piece of ground and keep it in good balance between the estate, the farmers, forestry and the sporting side of things.
The syndicate / hunting club model works very well in other parts of the world.
Where is absolutely doesn’t work is where interests are non aligned. Especially when it comes to forestry / rewilding where the woodland managers want every single deer shot.
I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to pay any money for those sorts of operations unless it was very much worth my while - ie I was essentially paying for raw material for a venison business, or was putting the deer shot into another contract where you are getting paid for every deer going into the larder. And yes it does go on - I was part of syndicate where we lost it to a gentleman who was doing exactly that.
I think much of this is now academic in Scotland as we are rapidly getting to a state of affairs where deer numbers are too low to justify paying or charging large fees for stalking.
Landowners have shot themselves in the foot. Many estates, hotels, guesthouses etc do rely on stalking and shooting guests in the autumn and winter period. Not many others will pay to be out in the Scottish countryside at that time of year. So sources of income will fall hugely after end of September when the weather turns. And trees take a bloody long time to grow before you get an income.
They learnt this the hard way in Africa. They have a phrase - if it pays it stays. Many of the rewilding companies are rapidly finding that money flow is all one way - outwards.
I think the other big tragedy is that we have lost deer that are hefted to the land, know how to survive in harsh environments, and over several generations of good management, they have good genetics. This has been destroyed in just a few years. The deer are gone, so too are all those who managed and looked after them.
As for contractors - well with deer numbers right down it’s getting increasingly hard to make money, let alone cover the basic costs.
So going back to the original question, I think syndicates can work well. They can also be an utter racket.
The syndicate / hunting club model works very well in other parts of the world.
Where is absolutely doesn’t work is where interests are non aligned. Especially when it comes to forestry / rewilding where the woodland managers want every single deer shot.
I certainly wouldn’t be prepared to pay any money for those sorts of operations unless it was very much worth my while - ie I was essentially paying for raw material for a venison business, or was putting the deer shot into another contract where you are getting paid for every deer going into the larder. And yes it does go on - I was part of syndicate where we lost it to a gentleman who was doing exactly that.
I think much of this is now academic in Scotland as we are rapidly getting to a state of affairs where deer numbers are too low to justify paying or charging large fees for stalking.
Landowners have shot themselves in the foot. Many estates, hotels, guesthouses etc do rely on stalking and shooting guests in the autumn and winter period. Not many others will pay to be out in the Scottish countryside at that time of year. So sources of income will fall hugely after end of September when the weather turns. And trees take a bloody long time to grow before you get an income.
They learnt this the hard way in Africa. They have a phrase - if it pays it stays. Many of the rewilding companies are rapidly finding that money flow is all one way - outwards.
I think the other big tragedy is that we have lost deer that are hefted to the land, know how to survive in harsh environments, and over several generations of good management, they have good genetics. This has been destroyed in just a few years. The deer are gone, so too are all those who managed and looked after them.
As for contractors - well with deer numbers right down it’s getting increasingly hard to make money, let alone cover the basic costs.
So going back to the original question, I think syndicates can work well. They can also be an utter racket.
Norfolk Deer Search
Well-Known Member
It is as simple as this, there are too many people with firearms and nowhere to go!
Syndicates are a way for landowners to make money sample as that, deer management has nothing to do with it
Syndicates are a way for landowners to make money sample as that, deer management has nothing to do with it
I think syndicates can be an effective way of reducing/controlling deer numbers provided you have the right members. If you have the right extraction gear and somewhere to move the venison onto then its all hunky dory. My problem is the lack of anyone wanting venison and I wont pull the trigger if I dont have anywhere for it to go.
Overlay
Well-Known Member
All depends who’s running it and for what result ???
One thing for sure, don’t expect all members to pull their weight because you will have a void in attendance and deer culled irrespective if you have a member who wants to be out there 24/7 like a hound dog
The best way is to have everyone pulling on the same piece of string and happy to do so, you have to work hard to get it all and keep it all together, if you can get involved in a decent syndicate with steerage you will have some very memorable stalking outings, there are some brilliant syndicates and stalking available finding the right One is a different story, enjoy the ride and you’ll meet some really good and sociable stalkers on the way
good luck
One thing for sure, don’t expect all members to pull their weight because you will have a void in attendance and deer culled irrespective if you have a member who wants to be out there 24/7 like a hound dog
The best way is to have everyone pulling on the same piece of string and happy to do so, you have to work hard to get it all and keep it all together, if you can get involved in a decent syndicate with steerage you will have some very memorable stalking outings, there are some brilliant syndicates and stalking available finding the right One is a different story, enjoy the ride and you’ll meet some really good and sociable stalkers on the way
good luck
David Barker
Well-Known Member
I have a small syndicate 5 members none of them pay money. They just shoot deer for the landowner. If we see to many deer on the ground we shoot more . If not many are seen we back off. Is it effective I'm not sure be we shoot roughly the same number each year and the landowner is happy. PS all vermin shot on site or if landowners give us a call out. Same group were with me on FES ground we shot over the cull every year for three years. They still moved us on as our contract had ran out and it is to give others a chance . Is that effective not at all and why they now don't have many leases. So if FLS with millions at there disposal cant manage there deer properly what chance has a single person who pays for everything his self.
No based on personal experience there’s a syndicate next block on from one of my permissions bouncing with deer as soon as I thin deer on my patch they’re straight over filling the vacum 
Maybe that's what I'm doing wrong. I run my syndicates on a not for profit basis. When the rent invoice comes in, I send it out to the syndicate members and we each pay an equal share.
Regards
JCS
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