Any Legal Quarry ACPO reccomendations?

[FrenchieBoy]

I have read (On several different forums) that the ACPO made a reccomendation that "Any Legal Quarry" should be added as a condition to all FACs if requested. I have also read several posts that say that this reccomendation was withdrawn so does anyone know exactly what the current situation is over this condition?
Could any of you with any "Legal knowledge" offer any help or links to where I can find any "official" details about this please?

 

[finnbear270]

ACPO can make all the suggestions they wish, Chief Constables do not have to take up anything put forward by ACPO, it's a talking shop.

 

[stag1933]

I must be lucky with my home county of Cumbria.
I have 5 c/f rifles and my final condition on the cert. states `use only in connection with the lawful shooting of deer and the shooting of vermin or, in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife`.
Fox is also included in the other conditions.

HWH.

 

[finnbear270]

Hubert, you are in receipt of a very liberal dusting of common sense from your lot!

 

[CRUMPY]

I too have this as the final condition on my certificate in Staffordshire, do you take it that you may shoot any legal quarry in the UK with this on your ticket, this is not a loaded question I don't look at other peoples tickets and didn't know that this may not be on some peoples firearm certificate.

 

[flytie]

I am in contact with West Mercia Police's Professional Standards Department (my MP and the Home Office Minister James Brokenshire MP) over my complaint that they will not issue me AOLQ. I have a solicitors opinion and a barristers opinion that should see me through a Judicial Review if they do not see sense. The legal eagles must be confident as they have offered no win no fee!

I am, however, not holding my breath. Common sense is not common, seemingly.

ft

 

[finnbear270]

Flyt, you have my undivided attention on this one,& I'm sure a lot of others too!

 

[stag1933]

I too have this as the final condition on my certificate in Staffordshire, do you take it that you may shoot any legal quarry in the UK with this on your ticket, this is not a loaded question I don't look at other peoples tickets and didn't know that this may not be on some peoples firearm certificate.

Yes !
`Lawful shooting` and `any estate` covers it all as we are talking about UK legislation.
As I have held my certificate since the 10th of August 1951 [59 years] with NO incidents or accidents I expect no less.

HWH.

 

[Dalua]

Very interesting! Do you recall whether any conditions were placed on your certificate when it was newly granted. and if so, what they were?

 

[stag1933]

Very interesting! Do you recall whether any conditions were placed on your certificate when your certificate was newly granted. and if so, what they were?

No !
It was so long ago. My original application then was for a .22 rimfire and I did not apply for my first centre-fire [a 7X65R] rifle for stalking until 1961.
I had slight hassle then but a personal visit to the Police accompanied by my mentor of the Roe soon sorted that out.

HWH.

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Yes !
`Lawful shooting` and `any estate` covers it all as we are talking about UK legislation.
As I have held my certificate since the 10th of August 1951 [59 years] with NO incidents or accidents I expect no less.

HWH.

Mines similar Hubert.

Exact wording is as follows

The holder of this certificate is permitted to posses, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition and the missiles for such ammunition and to use expanding ammunition in connection with the reasons as indicated below,within the confines of any condition imposed upon the use of the weapon.

The lawful shooting of deer,
The shooting of vermin or in the course of carrying on activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife.
The humane killing of animals.
The ammunition may also be used for the purpose of zeroing in connection with the above purpose



The any management of any estate and other wildlife covers exactly that any vermin ,goat,pig/boar

 

[nell]

Has anybody been prosecuted regarding this issue?????

My cert is in for renewal at the moment,i had a good blether with a very level headed flo,i asked about the boar issue and the problems folks are having getting them added,(not me) he laugh and said if a person is deemed responsible to own a calibre suitable for any given quarry why should they not be allowed to use it????

Nell

 

[finnbear270]

Did you suggest he apply to sit in on ACPO meetings?

 

[Tamus]

Mines similar Hubert.

Exact wording is as follows

The holder of this certificate is permitted to posses, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition and the missiles for such ammunition and to use expanding ammunition in connection with the reasons as indicated below,within the confines of any condition imposed upon the use of the weapon.

The lawful shooting of deer,
The shooting of vermin or in the course of carrying on activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife.
The humane killing of animals.
The ammunition may also be used for the purpose of zeroing in connection with the above purpose



The any management of any estate and other wildlife covers exactly that any vermin ,goat,pig/boar

So you're evidently OK to use ammunition and missiles for such ammunition, but can you also use the firearms in the same manner? or are their conditions too confining?

 

[Mannlicher_Stu]

Nope as long as the holder has Authority to shoot

 

[Ade 30-06]

Gents,
I've had the situation last week following a variation where my new 30-06 has had (as I read it) a "non open" condition on it. My other 3 firearms are open, a .243, .22rf and .17rf ????? It reads as follows :

' The .30-06 rifle and the ammunition shall be used for shooting deer/wild boar and for zeroing on ranges,or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot. '
My .243 is "open" for deer ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Now ! In practical terms wherever there are deer/boar this condition should not restrict me because that land should have been 'approved' for the calibre stated, namely 30-06. But, this does mean that the land where my permission is, and is listed on my renewal grant has been approved for .270 only.....I say only !
Does this mean that for the next 4 years I am not able to use my 30-06 on my own permission which I know like the back of my hand, in preference for land to which I am not going to be so familiar but contains deer or boar ?????? Try and tell me that a .270 round is going to travel less distance and be significantly less hazardous than a 30-06 round , I totally fail to see the logic, at all , whatsoever, Duh, it's baffling to me ?????
I will be questioning this tomorrow and requesting an "open" condition for the 30-06 to include fox and vermin too.

I know how to and where I can and cannot discharge a centrefire rifle, they must be confident of it otherwise they would not have given me an open condition in the first place. So what makes the 30-06 so different, I can hear it now;
Well, it's faster..........................................No it is not
The bullets are heavier.............................................No they are not I'll be using 130gn Barnes
It has the potential to be more dangerous.........................................They all do, dead is dead and that is the intention every time !
Please tell me WHY there is a difference ?

Soap box duely put away now, time for a cuppa

Ade

 

[finnbear270]

Ade, I encountered this a while ago, the explanation was like this" Each new/fresh calibre will be treated as if you are just starting out again", so that was soon put to bed!

 

[bewsher500]

It is my understanding of firearms law that the classifications on the firearms certificate are the "primary" reason(s) for "possession" of said firearm.

Short of the bullet weight and energy limitations/use of shotguns on deer, I am fairly confident (but open to being corrected) that the law does not dictate what you can and cant shoot with said rifle. within reason!

you can shoot a hoodie crow/fox/rabbit with your .308 if you happen to be out stalking without fear of an armed response unit dropping from the skies to revoke your license.

people all over the country shoot foxes with .270/308 etc calibres that are on their tickets for deer/range only. whilst the home office "advice" is that they are not to be authorised for use on foxes as a pimary use they are not breaking the law by doing so.

 

[flytie]

It is my understanding of firearms law that the classifications on the firearms certificate are the "primary" reason(s) for "possession" of said firearm.

Short of the bullet weight and energy limitations/use of shotguns on deer, I am fairly confident (but open to being corrected) that the law does not dictate what you can and cant shoot with said rifle. within reason!

you can shoot a hoodie crow/fox/rabbit with your .308 if you happen to be out stalking without fear of an armed response unit dropping from the skies to revoke your license.

people all over the country shoot foxes with .270/308 etc calibres that are on their tickets for deer/range only. whilst the home office "advice" is that they are not to be authorised for use on foxes as a pimary use they are not breaking the law by doing so.

Brewsher, I do not believe that you are correct!

West Mercia Constabulary have catagorically stated that I am not allowed to shoot crows with my rifles that are conditioned for deer and fox. I have asked for, and been refused, Any Other Lawful Quarry as a condition on my FAC.

While the Firearms Act assumes that no conditions will be placed on your FAC, in general they are. And if you shoot something that is not explicitily covered by your conditions, you would be in breach of them and liable to prosecution. This is why the caveat of AOLQ is so important.

My argument for having AOLQ is;

I do not pay for most of my stalking, it is done on friend's farms. We share the venison, with neighbours too, and I am requested to shoot foxes on those farms that have game shoots. I am also asked to shoot vermin other than foxes (corvids etc.), but can only do so with my .22RF. So why is a shot with my 6.5 safe when it is at a fox, but not safe when it is at a corvid? I believe a safe shot is a safe shot whatever the calibre used, West Mercia Constabulary see it differently. Using my 6.5x55 or .308, I am able to shoot a fox taking a lamb, but would be breaking the conditions on my FAC if I were to shoot a crow/magpie taking out the eyes of a lamb. Madness
ft

 

[Orion]

Exact wording is as follows

The holder of this certificate is permitted to posses, purchase or aquire expanding ammunition and the missiles for such ammunition and to use expanding ammunition in connection with the reasons as indicated below,within the confines of any condition imposed upon the use of the weapon.

The lawful shooting of deer,
The shooting of vermin or in the course of carrying on activities in connection with the management of any estate, other wildlife.
The humane killing of animals.
The ammunition may also be used for the purpose of zeroing in connection with the above purpose



The any management of any estate and other wildlife covers exactly that any vermin ,goat,pig/boar

That is the standard condition for expanding ammunition that was rushed through post-Dunblane after the authorites forgot that sporting rifles also used expanding ammo and not just pistols. We should all have it on our FACs, (or maybe something amended as below if it includes firearms), to cover possession of sporting ammo.

On it's own it does NOT give you an equivalent of AOLQ unless it is either specifically amended to read as a condition for use of a firearm as well as expanding ammo; or you already have the firearm in which the expanding ammo is used conditioned for such use - as mentioned in the underlined section above.

To re-iterate, as worded above it's a confusing 'cover all' condition for the use, purchase and possession of expanding ammo - not the firearm, so tread carefully.