Advice on possibility of stepping up to C/F for Deer.

[Pellet Pinger]

Gentlemen, I shoot .25 air and HMR on an open FAC, have numerous perms including 3 golf courses, farmland, paddocks etc, just hit the 1000 round mark with the HMR.
I’ve been thinking of stepping up to C/F as one of my golf courses has a serious fox problem, also and more relevant I control the Hares on a 300plus acre commercial tree plantation that is starting to see more damage by Muntys and Roe, I see them quite regularly when out on the Hares, mostly after dark but occasionally late evening. I’ve been shooting this permission for over 2 years and the landowner has mentioned the deer issue a couple of times to me so the C/F is giving me an itch.
I know it’s one for my FEO but can any of you guys give any pros or cons on applying for a suitable cal ie .243 that will allow me to take foxes and deer on the said land. Will I need to go through a mentoring process or complete a DSC1? Will it be a red tape nightmare or is there a possibility it could be a simple process given I’ve been shooting the land for a number of years.
Also has anyone successfully been granted a night licence for the control of deer in this type of circumstance.
Cheers.

 

[kes]

If you ask your landowner for a letter stating that you have his authorisation to shoot deer causing damage, you will immediately be eligible for a deer calibre - you will be put on a 'closed' cert and the land checked and probably thereafter an interview once you have applied for a variation for a .223 (fox) and (say.308) deer, or, as you suggest, a .243 for both. It should not be a red tape nightmare at all.
You could ask directly for a .243 as an extra slot but it will require the land authorisation and a 'clearing' - if your farmer is not keen on letters, once you have applied a phone call from the police for confirmation might be sufficient. Cert, when granted, still probably closed.
Good Luck.

 

[Woodsmoke]

Just apply for a variation, stating your good reason, and listing your permissions. I wouldn't bother your landowner for a letter. The police will contact him regardless. Sounds like a done deal to me

 

[MAH]

you have his authorisation to shoot deer causing damage, you will immediately be eligible for a deer calibre

I agree with the above.

But I would add, that the police need to be sure:
a.. You have good reason.
b.. You are suitable.
c.. The land is safe.

It sounds like you have them all covered, but the impact of a more powerful calibre needs to be evaluated.
You'll improve or spoil things depending on how you interact with the police, e.g
Re (a) - go online, find the police or BSAC form used to record authorise "permission to shoot" fill it in, mention damage etc, get the LO to sign it. It will demonstrate you understand the rules.

Re (b) - You current experience and open tick will puts you in good place. As you've said, your stepping up to something new, so whist not mandatory, the D.SC. will demonstrate further professionalism. You might even enjoy it and learn something.

Re (c) - The FLO needs to check the land is safe for larger, more powerful calibres. If there are any areas/arks of fire that present increased risk, the FLO will want to be sure you are aware, and understand this. So prempt it, think it through yourself. Make a wee sketch that you can use at any future meeting with the FLO.

Some might think this is ott, I see it a bit like a job interview. If you really want it, do some preparation, and put your best foot forward. Good luck.
M.

 

[jimbo1984]

You don’t need any courses or mentoring etc just put in for cf you’ve got good reason , you’ve got the ground , just go for it

 

[Apthorpe]

It would probably be wise not to mention considering night shooting of deer at this stage. Keep it nice and easy for the police to understand.
Be sure to have landowner's written permission to shoot deer to control tree damage and the land form filled in by him.
I can't imagine you'll have any trouble at all.

 

[Brno2e]

Hopefully you are not in Nottinghamshire as you may have a long wait for land checks and a level 1 might be part of their conditions plus .243 max for your first C/F.

 

[oowee]

As MAH says above get the 686 form signed and send it in with your variation.

 

[Selous]

Chance of getting a night shooting license in England is approximately 0%
Saying that, crack on and apply for a variation, it should be a formality

 

[jimbo1984]

Hopefully you are not in Nottinghamshire as you may have a long wait for land checks and a level 1 might be part of their conditions plus .243 max for your first C/F.

Well it shouldn’t be !

 

[Brno2e]

Well it shouldn’t be !

I know but try telling them. It's a postcode lottery.

 

[Pellet Pinger]

Gents, many thanks for taking the time to reply, it’s just the sort of info I was looking for to help me make a decision.
Much appreciated.

 

[evetseel]

A point that may have gone unchecked is one that I ran into. I jumped to CF as soon as legal and safe. Didn’t look back. However!! I too have deer permissions and requests to control. I still don’t shoot the deer. Why? Have you wondered what you will do with the deer?
Ok, watch YouTube, get some basic gralock mentoring in your DSC1 and onward courses, but unless you know a family member or friend that has a facility to process the deer, or you alone have such means, then what will you do with the Caracas? Also, don’t discount retrieving the deer. I have a discovery 3 but unless you put the deer down on suitable recovery ground, getting the deer home, in its own right can be very difficult.
Preference is generally to hang deer for a period of time. This year not too much of an issue if you have a cold outbuilding and some insect netting for the carcas, but in the summer you’ll need a chilled space. I have used standing fridges modified for this in the past, but then you have the butchery issues. Butchers are far to heavily regulated these days and most will refuse carcasses especially if not skinned. Not an easy skill. Start with the sausage maker possibly, but that’s a hell of a lot of meat! Do you know what to check your deer for in order to ensure it is not diseased?
Food for thought possibly. I personally struggled with this, and have not taken opportunities presented with deer as for me, if you can’t respect the beast then don’t shoot it.

 

[evetseel]

Also, don’t mention grazing deer damaging pastures, as I ran into some critique that explained that deer generally dont graze on grass. Your orchid will be a good enough substantiation.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

If you haven’t already done so. Download a copy of the Home Office Guidelines. Read the relevant section on “Good Reason”. Also the section I can’t recall where exactly on experience of other firearms being acceptable moving to centre fire.
As previously mentioned it’s well worth doing a “Risk Assessment” over the land you intend to shoot.
It helped me when I was having trouble getting land passed (many years ago) as two forces were involved. FAC with one land in another. Long story short explanation of what was and wasn’t safe made all the difference.

 

[Koenig]

Just do it. Ask for the variation. By the sounds of it you have good reason and (without having seen it) suitable land which needs pest/deer management. Every police force seems to be different in terms of what they want you to do. It is, as one of the other posters said a lottery. That said don’t be put off, get the paperwork in and see what they say. My FEO’s have been a pleasure to deal with (Herts and then Wilts) so you may well find that you’re pleasantly surprised. Equally I’ve heard of others experiences that have been real tales of woe. That shouldn’t stop you though.

 

[Orion]

If you haven’t already done so. Download a copy of the Home Office Guidelines. Read the relevant section on “Good Reason”. Also the section I can’t recall where exactly on experience of other firearms being acceptable moving to centre fire.

Here you go:

13.26 It is desirable that new applicants should have some previous experience of the safe use of firearms before using such rifles. Experience is neither cartridge nor ammunition type exclusive. It may include the shooting of any quarry species. The aspect that police are looking to be satisfied about is the competency of the applicant to take a safe shot every time. The shooting of any quarry requires a safe backstop for the shot, and such experience is transferable between quarry species.

It relates to the first use of centrefire rifles for fox but could be equally applicable to other medium to large quarry species.

To the OP - also read Chapter 10 which relates to the procedure the FLD should adopt when considering applications and issuing an FAC. Look to satisfy the criteria and you should avoid any problems.

 

[Somersetdk]

Iv recently been through this and got my first C/F but i had to do a firearms awareness course before It was granted, I did argue this and basc were involved but basically got nowhere with it , it was either the course or taking the licensing department to court (the course was the easier bet)
It depends on your licensing department as it's a postcode lottery and they all have different rules that they stick by

 

[25 Sharps]

A point that may have gone unchecked is one that I ran into. I jumped to CF as soon as legal and safe. Didn’t look back. However!! I too have deer permissions and requests to control. I still don’t shoot the deer. Why? Have you wondered what you will do with the deer?
Ok, watch YouTube, get some basic gralock mentoring in your DSC1 and onward courses, but unless you know a family member or friend that has a facility to process the deer, or you alone have such means, then what will you do with the Caracas? Also, don’t discount retrieving the deer. I have a discovery 3 but unless you put the deer down on suitable recovery ground, getting the deer home, in its own right can be very difficult.
Preference is generally to hang deer for a period of time. This year not too much of an issue if you have a cold outbuilding and some insect netting for the carcas, but in the summer you’ll need a chilled space. I have used standing fridges modified for this in the past, but then you have the butchery issues. Butchers are far to heavily regulated these days and most will refuse carcasses especially if not skinned. Not an easy skill. Start with the sausage maker possibly, but that’s a hell of a lot of meat! Do you know what to check your deer for in order to ensure it is not diseased?
Food for thought possibly. I personally struggled with this, and have not taken opportunities presented with deer as for me, if you can’t respect the beast then don’t shoot it.

What’s with the negative waves moriarty?

Roe and muntjac really don’t take much extracting, get a roe sack job done. Carcasses are not huge and even a roe once processed and boned out will only take just over a freezer drawer, Munti are virtually oven ready sized.

Perhaps if you have deer permissions but are unwilling to shoot the deer you should give them all up for those who are struggling to find ground!

 

[25 Sharps]

Also, don’t mention grazing deer damaging pastures, as I ran into some critique that explained that deer generally dont graze on grass. Your orchid will be a good enough substantiation.

Deer don’t have to be controlled for damage, there is no need to give a justification for controlling deer. Deer control is justification in itself