338 Win Mag

[sikadog]

For about 60 years i have been shooting with shotgun and rifle i must admit more shotgun than rifle, so about 46years with a HV rifle and in this time i have NEVER thought about adjusting a scope in the feild except for zero.
There could be a choice of 3 or 4 species that are available to shoot, I may be stalking into a Roe when a Red appears or i may be stalking into a pig when a fox appears changing loads in the field makes no sense there are enough things out in the real world to cock up the job without me doing it.
Most of the time on most occasions you would not have time, a bit like quad sticks I love mine but I also hate the sight of them, they delay and cause problems.
A professional stalker I know says he has seen more deer missed because of them than any other item, well throw in changing cartridge and and it's a car crash waiting to happen.

 

[njc110381]

I used to run my 6.5x55 with a mixture of 95gr V-Max and 130gr Barnes TSX and my .22 Hornet with a mix of subsonics and full power loads. I never had an issue swapping around. A little self discipline is all it takes to run that setup. Yes it's another part of the system to fail, but that could be said of numerous things. Dialling a scope to work with a specific load is no different to a target shooter dialling for windage and range. You just mark your turrets at the standard point and work from that.

 

[NigelM]

Just to put this one to bed, at no time have I talked about running different loads to swap in and out of the rifle on the same day, although it's easy to do there is too much that can go wrong in the heat of the moment.

My point was that I can down load for a trip to Germany on the boar as they don't need 4000ftLb of energy and I can stoke up my load for a trip to Africa or Norway. Perfectly practical and easy to do.

 

[alberta boy]

Is the .257 Weatherby Vanguard an older one with a 24” barrel or a later model with a 26” barrel?

I’m not into Weatherby cartridges either with the exception of the .257. I’d like one but it’s about fourth on my wish list. I’ve never taken a shot past circa 325 yards though the opportunity is there on my land and other family land for shots on animals way way way further than 300 yards. I don’t twist turrets either. With a .257 Weatherby Mag I’d probably stretch my maximum distance to 400 yards on deer.

It's a 26 inch barreled rifle , so I suppose it's a later model , I'll have to ask him . It is a very accurate rifle , but seems to prefer heavier bullets . He bought it for long range Coyote hunting and wants to use lighter bullets , which it doesn't shoot as well as the heavier bullets like the 120 gr . He's looking at other rifles now , which is why I called dibs on it . I'd use it for open country deer hunting , something the 257 is perfect for .

AB

 

[Southern]

My preference in .338 WM would be a current iteration M70(CRF). A Tikka would be too light for my taste. Second choice would be a Sako.

Winchester M70 Super Grade is right in many ways.

 

[booradley]

It's a 26 inch barreled rifle , so I suppose it's a later model , I'll have to ask him . It is a very accurate rifle , but seems to prefer heavier bullets . He bought it for long range Coyote hunting and wants to use lighter bullets , which it doesn't shoot as well as the heavier bullets like the 120 gr . He's looking at other rifles now , which is why I called dibs on it . I'd use it for open country deer hunting , something the 257 is perfect for .

AB

I’m pretty sure they started in 2018.

 

[User00033]

I appreciate your desire to put this to bed Nigel... but... Getting mixed up between yards & metres, that's all too easy to do. But swapping out cartridges as you shift from one hunting mode to another isn't done in the heat of moment, not in the slightest. It's done as part of a complete resetting of your mindset, approach and most often, a complete change of environment.

e.g. Going from open country long range shooting into the forest. Different conditions, different ranges, likely different animals and hence different bullets! I do it all the time with my 308 and switch bullets and make the necessary scope adjustments with a double and triple check, usually with a mug of tea and a muesli bar. All part of the hunting day. It's nowhere near as complex or risky as you fellas are making out. When I move into the forest, I change everything about how I'm hunting, sometimes my clothing and frequently my footwear!

From your comments above @sikadog, I have to assume you've never used ballistic turrets, dialling for elevation and windage. If you had, you'd understand, as you will have been adjusting your scope several (or many) times a day. No offense, I just don't think you have any practical appreciation of what adjusting your scope entails, be it for drop, windage or a different ballistic profile, as it does not sound like you've ever done it in your 46 years of HV experience. Therein lies the crux of the matter.

A general statement about hunting forum discussions in general. We talk about different styles of hunting in different environments, in different parts of the world, using different methods... But with, broadly speaking, the same tools. However, the methods of using the tools vary. It does irk me when people with zero experience of certain methods tell others that they are wrong. Telling others in the same breath that you've been doing something a certain way for however many hundred years does suggest that your perspective may be locked within a certain mode or frame of reference, and as such is highly likely to be resistant to different views or methods. This is a normal aspect of human behaviour that we encounter frequently in life, and is at the very core of the problem we have with ageism in the workplace these days, something I am experiencing first-hand as a middle-aged bloke in a world of millennial techno wizards.

"Car crash waiting to happen"?

No. Not at all.

This issue is captured very neatly in @NigelM's signature. It is indeed the "bottom line" of so much unnecessary criticism of other peoples ways and means of doing things... some blokes relish change and new challenges, others don't because they are set in their ways.

 

[sikadog]

Yes i do dial turrets but never in a hunting situation only when target shooting , why would you presume that I didn't know how.
Over the years I have seen a lot of shooters miss because they have spent so much time fiddling with this and fiddling with that and making a complete cock of the job.
My idea of stalking I repeat stalking is go get as close as possible.
Talking about adjusting scopes when stalking is fine when you have lots and lots of experience.
My motto is M.I.S.S. Make It Simple Stupid, that way i get more first shot kills and less runners, I am getting to long in the tooth to be chasing things.
I did all the fiddly bits when I was young and foolish, not any more, I just use common sense.

 

[User00035]

I used to dial my .308 up and down when switching between foxing and stalking before I got my .222. Luckily the Sako 123 grn Sako Gamekings I used on foxes (too much damage on deer) had exactly the same windage point of impact as the 150 grn Hornady Interbond homeloads I was using for deer, they just shot higher. So it was a simply matter of dialling for elevation between rounds. That's about as technical as I get in the field. The trouble was I didn't have ballistic turrets so the trick was remembering where I'd left the scope as I didn't want to mark it. Plus I am a natural fiddler and a bit OCD so, like Thora Hird on last of the summer wine constantly going back to check that she's shut the front door, I was always doubting myself and checking zero.

If I bought a calibre (7 mm RM in my case) that shot a wide range of loads, I'd be picking my loads for the job in hand and doing my adjustments at home (where I keep notes) before setting out rather than chopping and changing between different rounds in the field.

 

[John Gryphon]

My idea of stalking I repeat stalking is go get as close as possible.

Thats what stalking is all about too.

There are a lot of hunters that use muzzle loaders for deer,they dial up nothing They get into stalking mode,I doffs me lid to them too.
I looked at a fox today through the scope and had a deer cracker in the rifle,if I was gonna have a crack it would have been with said cracker,I would have managed to take the ears out of the mess for the $10.

Yes true deer stalking is on foot,knee`s or stomach and stalking in as close as possible complete with the shakes,the nerves,the will he or wont he stay there etc etc.
I don`t get nervy watching deer @ hundreds of yards,I can fart,pick my nose, light up a smoke and tie my bootlaces and talk to my dog.
A mate I have mentored for a dozen years has come a long way since he started and shoots enough of his own deer on foot by stalking.
He has even got to the "video them on the hoof" stage for which I commend him.
Only last week he bought a .300 Rum and a thumping $3000 dial up Nightforce to sit on top. He has 7mm mag,30-06,338WM and 300WM`s that have all taken deer.
Its going to be interesting to see how he compares the thrill of the hunt to sniping sambar across the big gullies/valley`s at the deer zone.

We know the place very well having pioneered most parts of it and shot a lot of deer in there. Possibilities of long shot ranges are many and varied from 500 to 1500 or more. I reckon the wind at time will bugger him up though as they are deep steep gullies with very variable cross winds,down and up.
I am tipping that the Rum will end up more in the safe than his other rifles.
Another mate has a .338 Edge and uses it all the time for those way out deer.... He is one to shoot as far as he can see them. I do suspect that he doesnt even bother to try and retrieve them at times.

I recently bought a pack of .338 Lap`s ($130) to feed the 98 Barrett,the original beast with the 30 inch barrel. There is a possibility on this place to have a crack at 1000 yards if the deer show.
The thrill for me just isn't the same as being face to face with a big sambar stag ( any stag) at eyeball distance like this bloke in the pic ( over seven yards and under 10 yards.) It was too shaky a time to make a cuppa or change bullets,I didn't shoot anyway.

sikadog`s My idea of stalking I repeat stalking is go get as close as possible.

 

[njc110381]

I don't think the interest in the .338WM is for long range? It simply throws a bigger diameter bullet that weighs more. It hits hard on bigger animals, that's all. Shooting is as much about the gun as the stalk for some, me included. It's nice to try different things.

At the extreme end of my experience with the .338WM I've shot muntjac and foxes with it, I even shot a mole with it once because it was wrecking the lawn on the estate I shoot on and when a hill started moving I gave it some! It worked. To be honest I'd rather shoot a munty with that than a .243. I've used both and the .243 made more mess. It's unusual but in Britain we seem to have a weird need to shy away from big rounds. I particularly like a Mauser video of a German fella shooting roe with an open sighted .416 Rigby... Why not?! It's human and safe, nothing much matters beyond that and it's all personal taste.

I say crack on. I've offered what I have and won't push it. It's a lovely round that certainly isn't lacking. Grab one and enjoy it!

 

[Southern]

The CZ 550 Express came in .338 WM, with iron sights. Hard to find bargain.

Older Model 70s came with iron sights, as did the Ruger M77.

Today, you would have to get a Sako 75 or 85 Bavarian, which are really stocked properly for them. Lots more money than the previous three rifles.

 

[turner.jc1]

Interesting and fairly niche choice of cartridge Nigel. What sort of bullet weight can you go up to in a factory twist? There’s a huge array of bullet choice these days for the .338. I’ve used a couple, a 338 WM Blaser R93 and a huge heavy target 338 Lapua, to shoot an Aoudad and a couple of ibex respectively in Spain. One shot 180gr tsxs (I think), the other 300gr scenars. Both were fine. The recoil on Both was a non issue FWIW, albeit on game.

 

[NigelM]

Interesting and fairly niche choice of cartridge Nigel. What sort of bullet weight can you go up to in a factory twist? There’s a huge array of bullet choice these days for the .338. I’ve used a couple, a 338 WM Blaser R93 and a huge heavy target 338 Lapua, to shoot an Aoudad and a couple of ibex respectively in Spain. One shot 180gr tsxs (I think), the other 300gr scenars. Both were fine. The recoil on Both was a non issue FWIW, albeit on game.

Very niche I know, but I had an itch to scratch. I'm after a Boar gun that could double as an all round Scandinavia & Plains Game gun. I nearly went for a 300WM which probably would have been a more sensible option but I want to see what the increased frontal area does in terms of terminal performance.

Factory twist is 1:10. Pretty comfy with VLD's up to about 275 grain if that's what you're aiming for, which might be interesting at 1k - the 6.5mm at that range does leave much of a splash.

I'm planning on Sierra 215 gr GK which were apparently designed for the 338WM. I'm a little worried they may be a little hard outside 200m but for 50m Boar they should be fine. At £30 a box of 50 they will also make a good practice round - better than £65 for Accubonds!

Modeling the 185 TTSX's it looks like they hit a node at around 3070 fps which might be interesting.

 

[NigelM]

It's done. Sako 75 purchased. Condition is a 9/10, bore is excellent. Doesn't seem to have seen much in the way of action.

Managed to find some Leopold mounts thanks to @Shabz which are about as low as I can get the scope - hopefully they are up to the recoil.

All set up for some festive reloading...

Thanks for all the help and advice. I will report back when I have learnt a bit more about it.

 

[alberta boy]

It's done. Sako 75 purchased. Condition is a 9/10, bore is excellent. Doesn't seem to have seen much in the way of action.

Managed to find some Leopold mounts thanks to @Shabz which are about as low as I can get the scope - hopefully they are up to the recoil.

All set up for some festive reloading...

Thanks for all the help and advice. I will report back when I have learnt a bit more about it.

Excellent , keep us posted . Definitely try out some 225 gr bullets , monolithics or partitions . They really reach out and are heavy enough for big animals .

AB

 

[turner.jc1]

Very niche I know, but I had an itch to scratch. I'm after a Boar gun that could double as an all round Scandinavia & Plains Game gun. I nearly went for a 300WM which probably would have been a more sensible option but I want to see what the increased frontal area does in terms of terminal performance.

Factory twist is 1:10. Pretty comfy with VLD's up to about 275 grain if that's what you're aiming for, which might be interesting at 1k - the 6.5mm at that range does leave much of a splash.

I'm planning on Sierra 215 gr GK which were apparently designed for the 338WM. I'm a little worried they may be a little hard outside 200m but for 50m Boar they should be fine. At £30 a box of 50 they will also make a good practice round - better than £65 for Accubonds!

Modeling the 185 TTSX's it looks like they hit a node at around 3070 fps which might be interesting.

Yes the 270gr ELDX and 265gr ablr at around a .750 BC would be interesting, having said this I’m not sure speed wise what you’d get. Maybe these are bettter suited to a larger case, but that would be some payload for large North American/African game etc. I’m away from home and quickload at the mo to have a look...

 

[NigelM]

Yes the 270gr ELDX and 265gr ablr at around a .750 BC would be interesting, having said this I’m not sure speed wise what you’d get. Maybe these are bettter suited to a larger case, but that would be some payload for large North American/African game etc. I’m away from home and quickload at the mo to have a look...

Been playing with Quickload and included the 265 ABLR in the mix. I tend to work on OBT nodes as I've found them pretty accurate in the past. The ABLR runs at 2540 fps. By 300m they are around 2200 fps. I think for shooting deer there are better options.

The ones that I'm focusing on are:

215 Sierra GK - designed for the 338WM, quite hard and thick jacketed compared to other GK's, can be launched very comfortably at 2800 fps, cheap to buy (£36/50) so good for Boar inside 60m and practice. Pretty much what this rifle is for.

If I want to take it to the hill I think either a 200 Accubond or 185 TTSX / 200 GS HV if I am forced to go Monolithic. They can all be run over 3000 fps, stay above 2600 fps to about 200m (threshold for quick kills in my experience) and retain good energy at that range.

If you go to the 225's you can't launch much above 2800 fps. by 100m you are already below 2600 fps and I believe the 200 gr will achieve better results due to the increased TV.

Not sure how the increased frontal area will effect my 2600 fps threshold. Only time will tell. Hopefully it will reduce to 2400 fps or so to give a few more options.

Now you can launch a 200gr bullet in a 300WM at 2900 fps with a much better BC and it performs just as well inside 300m, better beyond that range. However, the 338 is much softer on barrels, not really being a true magnum chambering, so should last a lot longer and stay a lot cooler. Bore sectional area to powder ratio is only slightly higher than my 7mm08.

At the other end of the scale the 10 twist barrel will stabilise a 285 ELDM with a BC of 0.829 at 2500 fps. Doesn't go subsonic until 1450m. Interesting LR plinking option. Might even get my mile shot with it!

Interesting chambering. Seems to be very flexible.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

Winchester M70 Super Grade is right in many ways.

Made in NC?

 

[User00033]

Threshold for quick kills.

There's an interesting comment. I would bet my left nut that your .338 will reliably kill deer stone dead an awful lot further than 200m.

Just need to use a softer bullet, and keep the point of impact well forward.

So, question, are you saying 200m specifically for the 185 TTSX / 200 GS HV or is that a general rule for you?