6pt-sika
Well-Known Member
Hmmmm I was guessing to myself about BJAI and Bill Jordan wasn’t my pick for the BJ part lols
6.5mm recommendations
- Thread starter Layton
- Start date
paul o'
Well-Known Member
Defo 6.5 in creedmoor or 6.5x47 if its a 6.5 factory rifle and factory ammo combo as long as its a 300 yrd deer rifle what more do you need ,Ack imp just means more outlay and none standard ammo or dies brass ect ect that your need to find and pay more for in your gun shop . I'v spent many k's on Ack this hand built that 
I now have a .270 Browning A bolt and I still can stick the bullets in a target at 100 under 1" , inc the new scope it came in at £983.00 ?? Sorted
I now have a .270 Browning A bolt and I still can stick the bullets in a target at 100 under 1" , inc the new scope it came in at £983.00 ?? Sorted 
Despite all the faff one just HAS to get into if wanting to own & shoot a non-standard (i.e. Wildcat cartridge) for me there is ALWAYS the pull of having something a little (sometimes maybe a lot?) different in one's home gun cabinet. This is my own opinion only obviously, but I doubt I am alone here.
Many years ago I started adding to my reading materials with several known (and/or obscure) books by aficionados in this field of making new cartridges from already established brass cases by altering their dimensions in some way or another. That got this unusual but (to me at least) interesting corner of reloading and ballistics under my otherwise thick skin. Never looked back, though I will admit I have NOT actually invested anything other than my time whilst investigating said variants EXCEPTING an equally early change to my then new Anschutz .22 Hornet rifle to a .22 Kilborn Hornet (.22K-H) cartridge I had bought and was enjoying greatly for its startling accuracy and much extended range over the only other rifle then in my cabinet, another beautifully accurate Anschutz in .22LR.
The .22K-H (.22KH?) gives me a small step up in velocities from the standard parent cartridge, though they can quite easily be made interchangeable in that area. The advantage is more one of case life as the now sharply bottlenecked case seems to last a couple more reloads before being binned as long as I don't go balls-out looking for pure speed! Despite the minimal advantage(s) I would again make this choice if I took a step back in time yet had this present knowledge of the tiny c/f model.....
If I were to go for another Wildcat it would have to follow the rules of the one I already have in the .22K-H in that I would only go for one in a current rifle cartridge that was SIMPLE to change up from the parent case, like the .223AI and/or the 6.5x55AI, where one just fire-forms the new case by chambering and firing an original cartridge load to "blow out" the case's shoulder and (usually) lessen the case tapper in order to increase case volume and give the more marked bottle-neck design of modern(??) cartridge brass.... A 6.5x30.06 might be another option for me if I have understood the formation dynamics of THAT cartridge properly??
So those more esoteric versions of 6.5 cal cartridges mentioned here - especially by '6pt-sika' - though REALLY VERY INTERESTING (to me) are most likely gonna stay knowledge and paper options ONLY for me....
Keep em coming though please if there are yet other, obscure options of interest fellas..
[emoji1360][emoji482]
Many thanks Blobby159
ATB ....... and shoot safely.
Many years ago I started adding to my reading materials with several known (and/or obscure) books by aficionados in this field of making new cartridges from already established brass cases by altering their dimensions in some way or another. That got this unusual but (to me at least) interesting corner of reloading and ballistics under my otherwise thick skin. Never looked back, though I will admit I have NOT actually invested anything other than my time whilst investigating said variants EXCEPTING an equally early change to my then new Anschutz .22 Hornet rifle to a .22 Kilborn Hornet (.22K-H) cartridge I had bought and was enjoying greatly for its startling accuracy and much extended range over the only other rifle then in my cabinet, another beautifully accurate Anschutz in .22LR.
The .22K-H (.22KH?) gives me a small step up in velocities from the standard parent cartridge, though they can quite easily be made interchangeable in that area. The advantage is more one of case life as the now sharply bottlenecked case seems to last a couple more reloads before being binned as long as I don't go balls-out looking for pure speed! Despite the minimal advantage(s) I would again make this choice if I took a step back in time yet had this present knowledge of the tiny c/f model.....
If I were to go for another Wildcat it would have to follow the rules of the one I already have in the .22K-H in that I would only go for one in a current rifle cartridge that was SIMPLE to change up from the parent case, like the .223AI and/or the 6.5x55AI, where one just fire-forms the new case by chambering and firing an original cartridge load to "blow out" the case's shoulder and (usually) lessen the case tapper in order to increase case volume and give the more marked bottle-neck design of modern(??) cartridge brass.... A 6.5x30.06 might be another option for me if I have understood the formation dynamics of THAT cartridge properly??
So those more esoteric versions of 6.5 cal cartridges mentioned here - especially by '6pt-sika' - though REALLY VERY INTERESTING (to me) are most likely gonna stay knowledge and paper options ONLY for me....
Keep em coming though please if there are yet other, obscure options of interest fellas..
[emoji1360][emoji482]Many thanks Blobby159
ATB ....... and shoot safely.
The 6.5 BJAI is named for Bob Jordan Ackley Improved. I believe there are a few 6.5X55 AI chamberings and the differences will be in the slope of the shoulder and upper case diameter. Any of them would more than likely be a good choice. I may be mistaken but I think the main difference in the Ai and BJAI is a little sharper shoulder on the BJAI. I'm pretty sure Ackley himself never improved the 6.5X55.
Absolutely correct. I do believe Bob Jordan has a slightly steeper shoulder.
The reasoning behind going overbore is a subject that has always interested me. I used to own a 6mm-06 AI which was like a laser. It was before the days of monolithic bullets which I suspect would have suited it very well, but chucking a 90 grain bullet that was doing over 3600 fpsat a deer was spectacular, and accurate for about 800 rounds. It nuked the barrel, which is why I started to get interested in the subject.
The 6.5 calibre is at the bottom end of the scale for a Red deer IMHO. A 140 grain bullet is about ideal for a red, providing it's of the right construction. A 140 in a 6.5mm is very high BC, dodges the wind exceptionally well and carries it's energy efficiently. The problem is it's velocity in the x55, CM or Lapua. They push it at 2600 to 2700 fps which by the time you get out to 250m is down to 2200 fps and you need a fully fragmenting bullet like an SST to kill cleanly. Come across a deer at 50m and you make quite a bit of mess.
So we try to rev that 140 gr bullet up to 3000 fps. You get into 6.5-284 territory and if you want 3100 fps you can build a 6.5 SAUM. Nosler even launched the 26 a couple of years ago which get's you to 3200 fps. It's pretty widely accepted that barrel life on the 6.5-284 is 1000 to 1500 if you treat it well. The SAUM will be under 1000 and the 26 Nosler I would be surprised if it got to 800.
Move up to 7mm and your 140 grain bullet has more frontal area so is more effective and a humble 7mm08 will launch it at 2800 fps. Back to a barrel life of 2500 to 3000 rounds. Want to go faster and a bit sexier? A 280AI will launch a 140 at 3200 fps but your barrel life will go down to 1000 to 1500 rounds, similar to the 6.5-284, but it's faster, flatter, has more frontal area and will kill further out.
A similar argument when you go up to larger species like Moose. You want a 180 grain bullet or bigger, which you can do with the 7mm but velocity is down. Move up to 30 cal and you can push a 180 at 2800 fps with an '06. If you want to push it at 3000 fps get a Win Mag and the cycle starts again.
If you take case capacity and divide it by bore area you get a factor. A number less than 1000 gives you good barrel life, over that and you are starting to shorten that life. 6.5 Lapua, 7mm08 and 30-06 are all around 850. Choose the right bullet weight and velocity for your quarry and then match it to a capacity/bore area ratio that gives you a reasonable life expectancy.
Monolithic bullets add an extra dimension. The ability to drop bullet weight because they don't fragment is redefining our chambering choice. Move from a 140 gr bullet at 2700 fps in a 6.5 to a 100 grain at 3100 fps and it will drop bigger beasts providing it's range isn't over extended. Unfortunately BC isn't flash yet so wind drift and energy loss are not as good which limits range.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 6.5 and have two of them, one for long range and one for Fallow and smaller, but I switch to 7mm for the Sika and Reds as I just find it's more flexible in terms of range and it does the job better for longer barrel life.
The 6.5 calibre is at the bottom end of the scale for a Red deer IMHO. A 140 grain bullet is about ideal for a red, providing it's of the right construction. A 140 in a 6.5mm is very high BC, dodges the wind exceptionally well and carries it's energy efficiently. The problem is it's velocity in the x55, CM or Lapua. They push it at 2600 to 2700 fps which by the time you get out to 250m is down to 2200 fps and you need a fully fragmenting bullet like an SST to kill cleanly. Come across a deer at 50m and you make quite a bit of mess.
So we try to rev that 140 gr bullet up to 3000 fps. You get into 6.5-284 territory and if you want 3100 fps you can build a 6.5 SAUM. Nosler even launched the 26 a couple of years ago which get's you to 3200 fps. It's pretty widely accepted that barrel life on the 6.5-284 is 1000 to 1500 if you treat it well. The SAUM will be under 1000 and the 26 Nosler I would be surprised if it got to 800.
Move up to 7mm and your 140 grain bullet has more frontal area so is more effective and a humble 7mm08 will launch it at 2800 fps. Back to a barrel life of 2500 to 3000 rounds. Want to go faster and a bit sexier? A 280AI will launch a 140 at 3200 fps but your barrel life will go down to 1000 to 1500 rounds, similar to the 6.5-284, but it's faster, flatter, has more frontal area and will kill further out.
A similar argument when you go up to larger species like Moose. You want a 180 grain bullet or bigger, which you can do with the 7mm but velocity is down. Move up to 30 cal and you can push a 180 at 2800 fps with an '06. If you want to push it at 3000 fps get a Win Mag and the cycle starts again.
If you take case capacity and divide it by bore area you get a factor. A number less than 1000 gives you good barrel life, over that and you are starting to shorten that life. 6.5 Lapua, 7mm08 and 30-06 are all around 850. Choose the right bullet weight and velocity for your quarry and then match it to a capacity/bore area ratio that gives you a reasonable life expectancy.
Monolithic bullets add an extra dimension. The ability to drop bullet weight because they don't fragment is redefining our chambering choice. Move from a 140 gr bullet at 2700 fps in a 6.5 to a 100 grain at 3100 fps and it will drop bigger beasts providing it's range isn't over extended. Unfortunately BC isn't flash yet so wind drift and energy loss are not as good which limits range.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 6.5 and have two of them, one for long range and one for Fallow and smaller, but I switch to 7mm for the Sika and Reds as I just find it's more flexible in terms of range and it does the job better for longer barrel life.
The Hornady Precision Hunter 143gr ELD-X in 6.5 Creedmoor has a listed MV of 2,700fps. At 250m, its travelling at over 2,300fps. They don't do that ammo in the Swede, but their Superformance 140gr SST load for the x55 is slightly faster and has roughly the same velocity at 250m. Yeah yeah we've all heard about factory ammo being slower than what it says on the box, but the Hornady is testing very well and usually in my experience any discrepancies can be put down to shorter barrels.
The reloader will generally get more out of the cases, for instance my mate Brian is pushing the 143gr ELD-X at over 2,800fps from his Swede. I am running my Creedmoor at 2,760fps.
The moral of the story here is use good factory ammunition when selecting the Swede. Or, reload to the full potential of quality small primer brass.
As for killing power, no way in this world or the next is the 6.5 in the slightest bit inadequate or at the bottom of any scales, for reds or sika. Put a good 6.5 hunting bullet put into the right place and it will flatten reds and sika. Put a 7mm bullet into the wrong place on deer and it will take off like Harry & Megan!
The reloader will generally get more out of the cases, for instance my mate Brian is pushing the 143gr ELD-X at over 2,800fps from his Swede. I am running my Creedmoor at 2,760fps.
The moral of the story here is use good factory ammunition when selecting the Swede. Or, reload to the full potential of quality small primer brass.
As for killing power, no way in this world or the next is the 6.5 in the slightest bit inadequate or at the bottom of any scales, for reds or sika. Put a good 6.5 hunting bullet put into the right place and it will flatten reds and sika. Put a 7mm bullet into the wrong place on deer and it will take off like Harry & Megan!
I never liked the 6.5 Swede. it might have been a good cartridge 100 years ago but now we have moved on. Swede only runs 3800 bar in the high pressure CIP Data vs CIP 4350 bar of the Creedmoor which will certainly make a 20" hunting rifle work better than the Swede.
If one wants a reliable 10 shot mil type magazine for a 6.5x55 it looks something like this. Even that does not feed great. The 6.5x55 is neither long nor short action.
vs a ten shot mag for a Creedmoor.
I know most on here seem to shoot single shot rifles but if one wants to shoot multiple deer then 7-10 rounds in a mag makes sense. Can also double as PRS rifle
For me the only reason to get any 6.5 was that Hornady made some good bullets and that coupled with good factory ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor. That is why I chose it over the Euro 6.5x47.
edi
If one wants a reliable 10 shot mil type magazine for a 6.5x55 it looks something like this. Even that does not feed great. The 6.5x55 is neither long nor short action.
vs a ten shot mag for a Creedmoor.
I know most on here seem to shoot single shot rifles but if one wants to shoot multiple deer then 7-10 rounds in a mag makes sense. Can also double as PRS rifle
For me the only reason to get any 6.5 was that Hornady made some good bullets and that coupled with good factory ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor. That is why I chose it over the Euro 6.5x47.
edi
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
You're barrel will thank you by lasting longer by using the very capable but sedate swede. You'd also be more reassured barrel wise if you go down the 2nd hand route because of the same reason. So for the money you want to spend I'd look at a 2nd hand Sauer in 6.5x55 myself anyway if it's for deer? After all isn't the trick to stalk into a deer and not to take the shot at 300+ yrds.
So obviously I'm with Edi on this one, the Swede to me is perfectly useable and venerated by many, but even with it's modern day improvements, it's still a fossil from a bygone age. Like the .270 and 06, the cases are too big for the performance achieved. Inefficient antiquities! Lots of bang for negligible benefits.
I run 10 shot mags for 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor, .243 Winchester and .223 Remington, and I empty them on pest animals regularly. Bugger the barrel, or the first baffle on the DPT. They are tools to be used, not tools to be stroked and admired! You've got another one for that...
I run 10 shot mags for 6.5 and 6mm Creedmoor, .243 Winchester and .223 Remington, and I empty them on pest animals regularly. Bugger the barrel, or the first baffle on the DPT. They are tools to be used, not tools to be stroked and admired! You've got another one for that...
I never liked the 6.5 Swede. it might have been a good cartridge 100 years ago but now we have moved on. Swede only runs 3800 bar in the high pressure CIP Data vs CIP 4350 bar of the Creedmoor which will certainly make a 20" hunting rifle work better than the Swede.
If one wants a reliable 10 shot mil type magazine for a 6.5x55 it looks something like this. Even that does not feed great. The 6.5x55 is neither long nor short action.
vs a ten shot mag for a Creedmoor.
I know most on here seem to shoot single shot rifles but if one wants to shoot multiple deer then 7-10 rounds in a mag makes sense. Can also double as PRS rifle
For me the only reason to get any 6.5 was that Hornady made some good bullets and that coupled with good factory ammo for the 6.5 Creedmoor. That is why I chose it over the Euro 6.5x47.
edi
You are badly informed regarding the 10 shot magazine size here 'ejg' .... I bought one sometime mid 2019 from a company that specifically makes them and others and it was a purpose built unit, made out of aluminium and functions flawlessly in my Tikka t3 'Sporter'. It is a single stacker, but still about one half the length of that shown in the photo you posted of a 10 round version??? It was not cheap mind you @ £150 something (can't recall the exact sum) but is well worth my outlay imho!!
Also, it is well known that the 6.5x55Swede has ammo made for it by those companies across The Pond (in USA) that is designed for the OLD Military original rifles that at something like 120 years of age just possibly have weaker actions than modern rifles made later in THIS Century. Due no doubt to the Claimant driven Society in the USofA there seems no appetite to produce sensibly pressured rounds such as is produced THIS side of the great divide by the likes of Norma for instance.. But home loading is really the way to go with the Swede round on modern actions. My load for the really accurate and high BC'd 139gr Lapua Scenar projectile gives me a SAFE and very useable 2,850fps without stretching things beyond sensible in MY Tikka...
ATB ..... and shoot safely
No matter how long you let the bullet stick out the front it will not change the case length which is neither short nor long. Any cartridge can be loaded out long. Pressure, show me any official pressure rating of the Swede that is higher than CIP 3800bar. I know many completely over charge the swede partially because the same criteria of flattened primer/ejector marks are used as one would for a 4350bar cartridge... not right is it? If something happens the European thing is one must answer in court why one loaded it over it's rating. The case is made to take the 3800bar at least officially, bit like a car tire rated to max 150mph max you shouldn't drive it to 200mph just because you have a car that can do it. A cartridge is a pressure vessel built to a pressure rating. Other cartridges in the past had +P versions with thicker walls to take higher pressure ratings. Is there a +P version for the swede?
edi
glasshalffull
Well-Known Member
Well I like to get close up and personalNo.
zambezi
Well-Known Member
Even some factory loads can deliver reasonable performance and excellent accuracy. I chrono'd the Sako Powerhead II 120gr offering for the Swede at 2740fps. That delivers 1800J at 200m. More importantly, the projectile is still doing more than the 2000fps required for the Barnes bullet to expand satisfactorily at that distance [just].
Home loading per Blobby159's post allows a safe and slight increment on this factory loading. But here is an example of the Swede's accuracy using that factory ammunition: I took theses three shots off bench rest at 100m through a cold barrel last month>
Great accuracy 'zambezi' and well noted!.. Yes, with home loading I expect I could quite safely exceed the 2800fps level, but I am quite satisfied with the 50fps slower speed and accuracy like your posting. At 1,000 yards on the Bisley Clock Tower Range I can hold most of my shots inside of the 5 ring with about 30->50% being V-Bulls and pretty much every shot inside the 4 ring, so I am quite pleased with MY 65Swede too!!..
ATB ...... and shoot safely
I would have to disagree with your statement that a cartridge is a pressure vessel. The chamber and bolt make up the pressure vessel and the cartridge is simply the package that holds the components. All 6.5X55 chambered arms in CIP regulated countries are proof tested to almost 69,000 PSI. SAAMI Lists a much lower average pressure of 51,000 psi for this caliber. All Swedish Mauser bolt actions were proof tested to almost 66,000 psi. A 6.5x55 built on a 98Mauser action or any of the modern actions will not have any problems running higher pressure than the anemic Saami specs. I also have no problem using higher than Saami pressure in my original Swede rifles. European ammunition for the 6.5X55 is higher than the SAAMI spec.
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