Stag meat in rut?

[deerstalker.308]

Ok, so I must confess, having been stalking reds for many many years now, I have always been put off (probably by preconceived ideas and bias) the idea of butchering for my own use red stags during the rut, preferring instead to let the game dealers have that issue. To date I have never done so, instead filling the freezer with a couple of hinds or calves instead.
Now, I’m thinking as per previous discussions about game dealers etc that more of this years beasts might make it into my own freezer, most likely in the form of sausages, but inevitably some steaks/mince and stewing will also be planned.
So, who has first hand experience of eating rutty stags, and what were your thoughts?
I’m not bothered by the external smells and grot etc, that all comes off with clean skinning, but keen to know if there really is a noticeable change in flavour due to the testosterone?
We don’t generally worry with other species during the rut, but reds seem to have a bit of a reputation. Is it justified?

 

[Bigron321]

Ok, so I must confess, having been stalking reds for many many years now, I have always been put off (probably by preconceived ideas and bias) the idea of butchering for my own use red stags during the rut, preferring instead to let the game dealers have that issue. To date I have never done so, instead filling the freezer with a couple of hinds or calves instead.
Now, I’m thinking as per previous discussions about game dealers etc that more of this years beasts might make it into my own freezer, most likely in the form of sausages, but inevitably some steaks/mince and stewing will also be planned.
So, who has first hand experience of eating rutty stags, and what were your thoughts?
I’m not bothered by the external smells and grot etc, that all comes off with clean skinning, but keen to know if there really is a noticeable change in flavour due to the testosterone?
We don’t generally worry with other species during the rut, but reds seem to have a bit of a reputation. Is it justified?

I find Reds generally always have a smell that is unmistakable, unlike other species. A smell we learn to love...maybe not.

I have had a good few stags of varying ages in my freezer that have been in and around the Rut. Nothing monstrous, but big enough.
Quite honestly apart from your hands, clothes, dog, knife, and everything else stinking there isn’t a huge difference if you perform a good clean gralloch and get the beast chilling.

The flavour is perhaps a little more gamey so burgers/sausages and slow cooking joints are a perfect way to use them.

I always think we can put more care and attention to details into our processing for personal consumption than most dealers, who will cut up generically.

We are so lucky to have access to such an amazing resource.

 

[Freeforester]

Will be interested to hear your own conclusions come the latter part of Autumn.

Good luck!

 

[deerstalker.308]

It’s a gamble for me, I’m up for trying it, but I’d hate to then discover it wasn’t good and have over 100kg of butchered meat in the freezer, I mean the dogs would love me but that’s not the point.
I wonder how much venison bought in butchers/restaurants could have potentially been rutty? We will never know I guess. Someone clearly eats it as the game dealers wouldn’t take it if they didn’t have an outlet.
I do agree with the points above about everything else smelling etc, and that if you can disassociate the meat from that smell memory then you’re probably ok, I think I’m going to have to give it a go, perhaps before butchering the whole lot and investing the effort and accept it may get sold on as dog food if it doesn’t play out well!

 

[bogtrotter]

Personally won't eat mature stag full stop whether in the rut or not .
For prime red venison either a yearling or yeld hind I.M.O.

 

[Freeforester]

I find Reds generally always have a smell that is unmistakable, unlike other species. A smell we learn to love...maybe not.

I have had a good few stags of varying ages in my freezer that have been in and around the Rut. Nothing monstrous, but big enough.
Quite honestly apart from your hands, clothes, dog, knife, and everything else stinking there isn’t a huge difference if you perform a good clean gralloch and get the beast chilling.

The flavour is perhaps a little more gamey so burgers/sausages and slow cooking joints are a perfect way to use them.

I always think we can put more care and attention to details into our processing for personal consumption than most dealers, who will cut up generically.

We are so lucky to have access to such an amazing resource.

You make no mention of the private boys that eg mince up everything, including lymph glands for their own consumption (it does happen), or fail to hang the meat, etc etc, there are a hundred and one ways for any human, be they privately or commercially concerned with venison to balls it up, including selection of the wrong deer at the wrong time of year, the chain only being as strong as the weakest link.

The type of dealer you imagine would not last very long, customers aren't stupid, and reputation takes years to earn, and minutes to lose.

We've all still got a lot to learn, but sweeping generalisations of the type made above are frankly pretty meaningless, unless you can point us toward these 'bastions of mediocrity'. Sure 'we can' put more care and attention to details, but do we? Each and every piece of venison I sell is checked for hair, blood, bruising, anomalies and smell, as if I was going to eat all of it myself; my name and details are are on every pack I sell, and repute laying with the contents on the inside - why would I wish to destroy them?

One more reason why I don't offer stag meat for sale which has been culled beyond the end of August, but you fill your boots and your freezer if you think it's fit for your table, and lavish it with all the care, attention and detail you want; I think the results of the 'quickening of the day' won't go past you, whether you're able to discern the difference or otherwise.

 

[Freeforester]

Personally won't eat mature stag full stop whether in the rut or not .
For prime red venison either a yearling or yeld hind I.M.O.

Mature stag meat from the bed and breakfast area between forest and field in July and August is absolutely superb, in my personal view, not strong, usually fat, and delicious


Mid August barley marauder stag;


His carcass 14 days later;


Ready for the grill, latter part September. No bad taste, no bad smell, just 'the boys'!

 

[deerstalker.308]

Mature stag meat from the bed and breakfast area between forest and field in July and August is absolutely superb, in my personal view, not strong, usually fat, and delicious

View attachment 163857
Mid August barley marauder stag;

View attachment 163858
His carcass 14 days later;

View attachment 163859
Ready for the grill, latter part September. No bad taste, no bad smell, just 'the boys'!

Ah but that’s definitely not rutting and I suspect my concerns lie more with the addition of testosterone later in the season. That looks a fine and tasty beast I wouldnt hesitate to eat
I’m not sure what @Freeforester is really getting at above? If I sell a carcass in the fur as long as it’s healthy the processing thereafter and marketing of it really is beyond my control? Yes I could just not shoot them, but then what, never manage the stags?
I agree if I was selling direct to the consumer I would be sure not to sell anything I wouldn’t eat, which is sort of the purpose of this thread, I would like to try it and see whether it deserves the reputation it has.
As to your point about mincing lymph nodes, do you remove them from haunches and shoulders before roasting if on the bone? I know I don’t, quite hard to do really? I’m not sure I get the point you’re making?

 

[Bigron321]

Me neither, I was simply trying to put across the passion I put into all these animals, as he mentions processed at the highest standard.
Whereas, I have had family/friends buy venison from butchers and dealers that is bloody/strong and frankly poor quality.

 

[Norfolk Horn]

Is it that the stag is carrying high levels of testosterone like some boars do hence the taint that some people taste and smell. Just a thought

 

[lochty]

I believe, but stand to be corrected, that a lot of the stags shot in the rut are exported to the continent to be made into salami, where the spices mask the underlying flavour.

 

[Freeforester]

Ah but that’s definitely not rutting and I suspect my concerns lie more with the addition of testosterone later in the season. That looks a fine and tasty beast I wouldnt hesitate to eat
I’m not sure what @Freeforester is really getting at above? If I sell a carcass in the fur as long as it’s healthy the processing thereafter and marketing of it really is beyond my control? Yes I could just not shoot them, but then what, never manage the stags?
I agree if I was selling direct to the consumer I would be sure not to sell anything I wouldn’t eat, which is sort of the purpose of this thread, I would like to try it and see whether it deserves the reputation it has.
As to your point about mincing lymph nodes, do you remove them from haunches and shoulders before roasting if on the bone? I know I don’t, quite hard to do really? I’m not sure I get the point you’re making?

A man carrying a hammer may or may not be a carpenter. The cobbler sticks to his last.

You caught my point in your first sentence; I am concerned with the eating qualities of venison both privately and commercially, respectfully I suggest you re-read what I've said above.

You are enquiring about the eating qualities of rutty stags. PM me, and I'd be very happy to pass you the telephone number of a local farmer who shot a rut stag a couple of years ago, and had it butchered (by the local butcher); the following year he asked me if I knew how to get rid of the 'tuppy' taste of the meat, the bulk of it remaining at that time in his freezer. I told him I did indeed know how to rectify the problem.

The following summer he shot a decent staggie and asked me if I would deal with it on this occasion, which I so agreed, but advised him the cost to do so would be double that of the local butcher; though he was at the time somewhat aggrieved at having to pay for my work, each and every time I asked subsequently how he was getting on with my whole day's work for him, he concurred it had been well worth the cost, and bore no comparison to their prior experience.

I offer to the few from whom I take £3/kilo for roe, and & £2.50 for red deer, but I will never, ever buy a red stag for processing after September, or before July 1, because I have a relationship with my customers based upon trust first and foremost, most of whom are valued and returning, discerning customer/friends of several years. As for lymph nodes in the meat, we can agree to butcher our animals according to our own preferences - à chacun, son goût.

I'm not personally concerned with what you may wish to eat or serve your guests yourself, that will out to all concerned in the fullness of time, my points are simply that care, attention to detail and quality of the venison to be offered up is a multifaceted matter, and getting it right, for me, is far more important than getting it wrong. It's your freezer, and your party, you are free to put in it whatever you like, and if that includes rut stag meat, then so be it, that'll be what you like, it sounds as if your plan is going to 'enlighten' yourself with the answer to your own question. As before, I look forward to hearing of your conclusions on the matter in due course.

Again, good luck!

 

[jubnut]

a lot of Freeforesters posts are full of old school "wisdom" and excuses not to shoot deer.

Too many people not shooting enough deer.

Just shoot one and try it. I don't think you'll find that much difference, and, given the reticence to shoot deer by stalkers everywhere if they can't cash in on venison I would suggest that feeding it to your dogs isn't such a waste. They have to eat something made of animals.

At least you'll be making a positive contribution to the woodlands in your area.

 

[Freeforester]

a lot of Freeforesters posts are full of old school "wisdom" and excuses not to shoot deer.

Too many people not shooting enough deer.

Just shoot one and try it. I don't think you'll find that much difference, and, given the reticence to shoot deer by stalkers everywhere if they can't cash in on venison I would suggest that feeding it to your dogs isn't such a waste. They have to eat something made of animals.

At least you'll be making a positive contribution to the woodlands in your area.

Bon appetit! I shot over a hundred and twenty to my own rifle between October and February last season, all cut up and sold to my customers. I'm certainly not advocating the preservation of deer.

 

[bogtrotter]

I believe, but stand to be corrected, that a lot of the stags shot in the rut are exported to the continent to be made into salami, where the spices mask the underlying flavour.

Its true that nearly all stags end up on the Continent there is practically no market in the uk for it whether it is for
making salami I'm not sure perhaps , certainly not to my taste what I would describe as rank.

 

[deerstalker.308]

Bon appetit! I shot over a hundred and twenty to my own rifle between October and February last season, all cut up and sold to my customers. I'm certainly not advocating the preservation of deer.

Ok I get your point, but am picking up a few things here. Firstly, I’m after first hand experience of people who have eaten it and can tell me if it was no good, I don’t want to speak to some random farmer who had it butchered by someone else as there are multiple question marks with that, how it was prepped, how long was it hung, does the guy actually like venison in the first place, did the butcher understand game/venison properly etc. Anyway too many questions there alone.
You are evidently a game dealer of sorts, don’t know the ins and outs of your business but have you yourself eaten any and have your own personal experience of it? I would image that the majority of folk on here eat more venison than most so would be better placed to identify any difference in flavour.
Secondly, if I didn’t shoot any stags in the rut, I would not do anything like the cull I need to. Simple. So short of leaving them to rot, what would you suggest?
Not everyone on here manages a whole highland estate, and works with numerous constraints, I know I do. I am limited as to what/when I can shoot so I shoot what I can when I can. I will always apply good management principals as and when I have the option to, but otherwise more often than not, if it’s in season and I can extract it, it gets shot, provided the game dealers will take them.

I don’t mean this to come across as argumentative etc, I do appreciate you taking the time to respond, but you haven’t answered the question I asked, where others have......

 

[bogtrotter]

Not many Game Dealers open yet but some are was quoted £1.70 a KG which is not that much below the usual
price .
May take a little time but the market will come back.

 

[Freeforester]

Indeed.

The randomness of the other guy, the butcher, his methods etc is fully applicable to everyone, myself and yourself included, lymph glands or no!

Would it help if I describe to you the difference in eating qualities between, say Beluga and Oscietra? Or the taste differences between Roederer and Möet & Chandon, or Pol Roger and Ruinart? I suspect not, because such matters are entirely subjective, and as Jubnut alludes, you may not find 'much difference', but on the other hand you may find a great deal, no one can say but yourself. At 57 though not having been a venison processor all my life, but having spent the better part of my life among deer here, shooting some deer, and sparing others which are helping deliver the objectives of woodland establishment in the first instance, and trophy production as a secondary but welcome benefit, all the while contributing positively to the woodland I own as well as the plantations I've helped to establish and manage for others, I've certainly sampled 'rut' red venison - haven't you? I'd hazard not, otherwise you'd know the answer to your question, which ever answer you find is the 'right' one for you.

I'm sorry to hear of your constraints and limitations on your sport, I can't help you there either, to be honest. Short of making the most of culling more of your stags in your quota earlier in the season, I suggest you get used to the flavour of the deer you intend shooting in the rut, if that is what you want to do with them; there's no better way of learning whether the 'reputation' is justified or otherwise.

 

[John_R]

Is it that the stag is carrying high levels of testosterone like some boars do hence the taint that some people taste and smell. Just a thought

Boar taint is different really in so far as it's there all the time in a mature, non castrated male. It is true that testosterone is part of it but there are other compounds too.

 

[deerstalker.308]

Indeed.

The randomness of the other guy, the butcher, his methods etc is fully applicable to everyone, myself and yourself included, lymph glands or no!

Would it help if I describe to you the difference in eating qualities between, say Beluga and Oscietra? Or the taste differences between Roederer and Möet & Chandon, or Pol Roger and Ruinart? I suspect not, because such matters are entirely subjective, and as Jubnut alludes, you may not find 'much difference', but on the other hand you may find a great deal, no one can say but yourself. At 57 though not having been a venison processor all my life, but having spent the better part of my life among deer here, shooting some deer, and sparing others which are helping deliver the objectives of woodland establishment in the first instance, and trophy production as a secondary but welcome benefit, all the while contributing positively to the woodland I own as well as the plantations I've helped to establish and manage for others, I've certainly sampled 'rut' red venison - haven't you? I'd hazard not, otherwise you'd know the answer to your question, which ever answer you find is the 'right' one for you.

I'm sorry to hear of your constraints and limitations on your sport, I can't help you there either, to be honest. Short of making the most of culling more of your stags in your quota earlier in the season, I suggest you get used to the flavour of the deer you intend shooting in the rut, if that is what you want to do with them; there's no better way of learning whether the 'reputation' is justified or otherwise.

I give up. It was a genuine question, how is it possible for someone to recommend anything ever if our own opinions are so subjective? I do appreciate everyone will have different senses of taste and what’s nice etc, but I think as I said before when the collective here eat more than most of the venison they shoot, they are probably best placed to provide an opinion based on their experiences. There are people within this thread who have provided helpful first hand experience, and then there are the philosophers who like to answer questions with questions.
I don’t have a choice what I shoot and when it shoot it, legal seasons notwithstanding, but thus far, I have not had the need or inclination to butcher a stag at the peak of his body weight at the start of the rut, so no, in answer to your question I haven’t ever eaten it! That would somewhat defeat the object of asking the question in this thread don’t you think.....

Cheers to those who’ve provide useful input though. Much appreciated.