Cool!, Last one of those I saw was on the lady music teachers piano, but most of us were focused a little lower.
Annealing, First proper go.
- Thread starter finnbear270
- Start date
OK try this, for some reason it would not open in google and I had to send it back to google again.
drive.google.com
Hot damn looks like it loaded OK
Stress Relieving Cases.docx
drive.google.com
Hot damn looks like it loaded OK
243varmint
Well-Known Member
Bloody clever machine that.
So this might sound a daft question but if you don't ask.
Is it important to anneal for hunting rounds? Or mainly target shooting.
I've reloaded for around 10 years and keep everything simple. I don't mess around with different loads. I get one and stick with it.
Reloaded some brass around 8-10 times.
As I said it might be a daft question but just curious.
It is important for long case life. Per by friend who was a ammunition engineer at Frankford Arsenal and also a fullbore shooter I shot with for years who taught me how to stress relieve cases his opinion was if you properly care for your brass you should NEVER SUSTAIN A SPLIT NECK.
With that being said before I knew the "rest of the story" I heated cases till they were dull red. Loaded them up and moved to South Carolina and finally got around to opening the box of 100 rounds and half of them had split necks sitting there loaded. I told my friend (above) and he gave me the whole background.
He already had a alcohol lamp and didn't want to by the propane torch/tanks and he used the lamp and rotated cases in his fingers with neck/shoulder in the flame and when he could not hold the case he dropped them on a towel.
NEVER DROP A HOT CASE IN WATER ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! The ammo plants don't drop in water. They don't stand cases in water either.
With that being said before I knew the "rest of the story" I heated cases till they were dull red. Loaded them up and moved to South Carolina and finally got around to opening the box of 100 rounds and half of them had split necks sitting there loaded. I told my friend (above) and he gave me the whole background.
He already had a alcohol lamp and didn't want to by the propane torch/tanks and he used the lamp and rotated cases in his fingers with neck/shoulder in the flame and when he could not hold the case he dropped them on a towel.
NEVER DROP A HOT CASE IN WATER ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! The ammo plants don't drop in water. They don't stand cases in water either.
Apart from more consistent neck tension for improved accuracy (probably not relevant at hunting distances but becomes increasing relevant if looking for ultimate accuracy at extended range) it certainly does extend case life.
I really can't remember the last time I had a split neck, my 6mmbr cases are now on their 16th reload with no problems showing up.
If I was only hunting, would I bother with annealing? No probably not, unless I was shooting some obscure calibre where cases were hard to come by. Then again I wouldn't do half the things I do for case prep that I do for long range target shooting.
Here's another of my machines:
I don't believe it does any harm to quench in water - just no benefit to do so.
243varmint
Well-Known Member
That is one nice bit of kit?
Do you sell them commercially?
To be fair so far with the reloading I've done,. 243, 30-06 and 9.3x62 I've only had one split neck on a hornady 30-06 case.
Thank you for your reply
That is really strange it goes against everything I know about annealing and working with non-ferrous metals.
Annealing at a dull red temperature even in a dark room will have taken you over 400˚C which is over the top stress relief temperature. Dull red in normal day time room lighting would likely be 150˚C above that and well into full annealing and recrystalisation temperature.
Copper Development Association 70/30 Cartridge brass:-
Stress relief annealing (as the name suggests) protects the metal from stress corrosion cracking / neck splitting even in the presence of ammonia.
Even if working in the dark, at a dull red your brass would have been fully recovered/stress relief annealed. Working in daylight, at a dull red it will have been well on the way through recrystallisation and at its most ductile and least likely to split.
The only, extremely tenuous, circumstance I can think of to explain your split necks is that they had been work hardened by too many reloadings before you did the annealing...and were already compromised.
Alan
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paul o'
Well-Known Member
Right guys one of the motor turned up this time from the UK and its got metal gears 
so below is a few cases from 4sec to 6sec
there all 6.5 lap SP Creedmoor cases apart
from the one 270 Norma, this was in the flame 5 Sec but has turned a blush red colour or thats what it looks like ,I used 750 templac all comments welcome every day is a leaning day and I only have x 96 lap SP left to play with before I burn it and send them off to get done lol .
I think 6 sec is the one but not sure ??
so below is a few cases from 4sec to 6sec
I think 6 sec is the one but not sure ??
Can you post a larger image of the one with the Tempilaq still on? Can't really tell from the thumbnail, but it does look like the one at the bottom is the only one that the Tempilaq has gone clear on. The 270 looks like the Tempilaq is still blue on the neck...
Alan
Alan
Agree. AFAIK, water quench confers no benefit to the annealing process. Nor is there any negative impact as brass does not harden when subjected to sudden cooling.
But what the water trough may give you is some insurance: In the event that you exposed the case to more heat than required to achieve neck annealing, and that heat is travelling past the shoulders to the extent of causing softening well below that point, then a water trough may arrest the heat transfer and thus protect the parts of the case nearer the head which need to remain hard.
Paul, I gave up on my skippy-annealer project [too fiddly] and have settled on a cordless drill annealing solution.
My big learning curve in multiple soap and stopwatch trials [using scrap brass] was to make sure the propane torch was properly hot, and to have the brass in that flame no more than 6sec.
Once I had established the right flame and time combo using soap [370°C-400°C] , I then focussed on what that temp looks like in terms of brass colour once that temp is reached. For me, a darkened room makes process both easier and repeatable to a high level of accuracy.
yes it is I stopped when I see it going that colour at 5sec and wondered why as the other make ( lap) had held there's ? is this better
As far was I can tell even the 6 second one on the bottom has still not completely changed...difficult to tell from a photograph though...Certainly would be worth doing 7 and 8 second experiment with that torch setting and position, and the same rotation speed and see what the effect is...and then drop back to 5 if no further change to the Tempilaq?
Interesting that red colour on the 270 case...I would guess just the effect caused by the particular oxide layer on that case. Be a bit flash to get all your cases looking as rosy as that...though might be a teensy bit girly!
Alan
There are certainly a lot of variables.
I agree that the flame is one of the most critical...A propane torch flame varies by over 1000˚C depending on where you position the case...and that is without adjusting the torch to be going flat out or on tickover.
The difficulty of getting the case in the same place in the flame in order to use a fixed time is why I gave up on the idea and just use soap on every one...keep heating and adjust the position in the flame so that the soap goes black on neck and shoulder at the same time....I could get the same annealing temperature in under 5 seconds or at around 7 depending on the position in the flame with the Sievert torch nozzle I use.
Alan
sorry should of read 7 and 8 second experiments and then drop back to 6 if no further change..but you obviously understood what I was getting at...
The position of the case in the flame on your machine is obviously not nearly as variable as my hand held system...but the intensity of the flame (torch valve setting) could vary from session to session, so worth doing a Tempilaq test at the start to confirm it is the same as last time...
Alan
Per your advice to me in April, I bought the Sievert 86 Pro torch and 393902 nozzle. That was some good advice Alan, thanks. Very controllable and well focussed flame. It has made the annealing journey a lot easier.
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