John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Jayzuz Klenchy you certainly do have some props to illustrate your posts but I have to wonder wtf you are doing with a dancing 'man doll' ha ha.
Upgrade from.243
- Thread starter Shroughaun
- Start date
Rusty Gate
Well-Known Member
Any 6.5 Sweede or Creed, just my opinion.
No... I have no wish to go further than I already am, and there’s nothing bigger to shoot and eat. Other than scrub bulls, but I recently bought a totally different new rifle for that kind of thing.
The 6.5 PRC is starting to get some traction amongst the Alpine hunters down south though.
It is interesting when you compare the ballistics of the 6.5s. The gains with the faster 6.5 cartridges just don’t translate to that significant a difference downrange to what I can achieve with my Creedmoor. When I finished load development with a new barrel, the 143gr ELD-X was at 2,720fps. The barrel has sped up and now I’m at 2,800fps exactly, drop tested, bang on at 500m. The only way it would make sense to go with a more powerful cartridge is if I could use a significantly heavier and higher BC bullet. There’s a couple of bullets that maybe fit this description, and I’m pretty sure we are going to see a couple more new ones too, in the mid-150gr range. But like I say in terms of terminal performance there isn’t a huge amount in it.
The 6.5 PRC is starting to get some traction amongst the Alpine hunters down south though.
It is interesting when you compare the ballistics of the 6.5s. The gains with the faster 6.5 cartridges just don’t translate to that significant a difference downrange to what I can achieve with my Creedmoor. When I finished load development with a new barrel, the 143gr ELD-X was at 2,720fps. The barrel has sped up and now I’m at 2,800fps exactly, drop tested, bang on at 500m. The only way it would make sense to go with a more powerful cartridge is if I could use a significantly heavier and higher BC bullet. There’s a couple of bullets that maybe fit this description, and I’m pretty sure we are going to see a couple more new ones too, in the mid-150gr range. But like I say in terms of terminal performance there isn’t a huge amount in it.
350 is a long shot on un wounded game imo. I did it exactly once on a whitetail deer with a 30-06 screwed up the shot and had to track and finish it. I also shoot a 243 and would use it for any reasonable shot, closer is better imo with anything. No other deer or North American pronghorn have required a shot beyond 250 yds in my experience.
Come over here @Daddy The Skunk , then you will understand...
I had some excellent pointers from an Ex R.M. commando on here, A good one I remember was tucking all the gear in tight to the body & gently rolling either in or out of where you wanted to be, Got around a group of Fallow to get to Roe like that., All good fun.
paul newham
Well-Known Member
Yep. But if your going to upgrade, do it properly. Get yourself a 6.5X284
I swapped my .243 for a 6.5 Swedish and never looked back. Really like it and my reason was actually more for bullet selection etc. But it’s still carrying plenty of energy out at 350. However I think if I was wanting something that delivers a convincing down range hit I’d be looking to .300 winmag territory. Maybe a 6.5 284 if you like your 6.5’s
There’s a reason they’re used more than anything else on plains game, and whilst the 6.5 is a more efficient bullet you don’t see the benifit of A creedmore or swede over a winmag till your out to about 7-800 yards.
There’s a reason they’re used more than anything else on plains game, and whilst the 6.5 is a more efficient bullet you don’t see the benifit of A creedmore or swede over a winmag till your out to about 7-800 yards.
Recon Sako 100gr Soft points are quite far down in BC vs other options in 6mm. There is nothing wrong with checking theory of different bullets at range... 6.5CM boys do it all the time. I think 300-350m is not very far and I would be more comfortable with the 308 on Sika than the 6.5CM at that distance. I think a 308 is just easier to get to shoot well and can do that with a 20" barrel vs realistic 24" for the CM.
The best factory rifle for 300m hunting I have come across is the stainless T3 308 CTR. At longer range one does not really need high sectional density, less speed will have less expansion and lack of penetration is not the issue. My experience was that Sika just don't run as far after being hit by a 30 cal. Over 400m is a different story and one needs to think different and yes 6.5CM has more power than a 308 at that distance but I fear deer that run further at 300 will run even further if shot at 400m. All OK if you have a good dog and they don't hop over the fence into an area where one has no access. If one is serious about 350 +m on Sika and needs to drop them, then my take would be a bigger 30cal. and.... bc figures can be better than with the 6.5's if one looks.
edi
The best factory rifle for 300m hunting I have come across is the stainless T3 308 CTR. At longer range one does not really need high sectional density, less speed will have less expansion and lack of penetration is not the issue. My experience was that Sika just don't run as far after being hit by a 30 cal. Over 400m is a different story and one needs to think different and yes 6.5CM has more power than a 308 at that distance but I fear deer that run further at 300 will run even further if shot at 400m. All OK if you have a good dog and they don't hop over the fence into an area where one has no access. If one is serious about 350 +m on Sika and needs to drop them, then my take would be a bigger 30cal. and.... bc figures can be better than with the 6.5's if one looks.
edi
WinMag
I'd love to be wrong to have a trip over there in return.... hopefully some day.
edi
edi
Quite correct and why i don't have a 6 creedmore. When the 243 finally shows keyholes i will use a 1-8 or 9 twist.
Really? Lets look at that.
I have too 22" barreled 6mm rifles here. A 7.5" twist standard 6mm Creedmoor, and a 8" twist semi-custom TruFlite .243 Winchester. We'll compare book values, and look at some real world data from my testing.
One of the standard powders for the two cartridges is H4350. Maximum velocity book values (24" barrels) for the 108gr ELD-M / 105gr A-Max are:
6mm Creedmoor (108gr): 41.7gr / 3,050fps
.243 Winchester (105gr): 41.0gr / 2,800fps
Now I've tested both of these rifles recently, and the real world velocities from 22" barrels and my loads, using the same powder lot, are as follows. Both loads are derived from the first accuracy node just below the point at which I found pressure (slight sticky bolt).
6mm Creedmoor (108gr): 42gr / 2,972fps (95.6% fill ratio)
.243 Winchester (105gr): 40.8gr / 2,938fps (96.1% fill ratio)
I found the Hornady book data for the .243 Win and 105gr A-Max to be well off, in my rifle. I found pressure quite early, but with a good deal more speed. My chamber specs are the exact same as my cousins' in Colorado (because I used their reamer), it's standard SAAMI with no tinkering for longer bullets (it was designed to shoot the A-Max at standard COAL due to mag length constraints).
Now here's the thing - my buddy Alan and I tend to do pretty much the same thing. He's got the exact same 6mm Creedmoor rifle as me, but his is about 200 shots "older" than mine. I'm at 230, he's at around 450ish. With the exact same load, same length barrel, he's at a drop tested 3,035fps. With each 100 reloads he's gaining a little more velocity.
This is what we both found, and has been widely reported, with the Howa 6.5 Creedmoor barrels. They get faster and tend to plateau around 300-400 shots. So it's happening again with the bigger Creedmoor's little brother. I'll expect to gain a bit more speed, and hence that's why I drop test every batch of 100 reloads. I saw an increase of 30fps on average between the first and second batches of 6mm Creedmoor rounds with the 108gr ELD-M. The semi-custom .243 however is maxxed out, it's got close to a 1,000 rounds down the tube already and the velocity doesn't change.
Anyway, back to the supposition that the .243 will beat the 6mm Creedmoor with the same twist barrel (or very close too).
It won't. It's just internet forum cobblers and unsupported assumptions. They'll be close, close enough that it doesn't really matter either way. But the .243 Winchester is nowhere near as efficient as the Creedmoor case; the Creedmoor makes a far better job of the internal ballistics than the slightly larger (+4%) .243. You'll find pressure at lower charges with the .243, and the velocity won't quite match the newer design.
That's why newer designs are usually pretty good. Cos they're better.
So I got a Creedmoor for exactly the situation you describe - shooting into an open bowl with almost no cover for approaching.
I’m very happy with it, and it does exactly what I’d hoped, at 250-300m. However, this is only shooting at roe.
I think that if I was shooting at something bigger, and if I couldn’t be certain of shot placement (which can happen on the frequent very windy days), I would want something with a bit more punch.
One distinct advantage of the Creedmoor is that at shorter range, it seems to be considerably less messy than a .243.
Moray Outfitting
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys but I still believe in getting closer to the deer. Unless your job is one where the target must be killed . And maybe with with a second shot. For all others it is lazyness. It was commented on before here that you have to practise. You have to get to the stage where the rifle and scope become part of you and you do not have to think about anything but point and shoot. I have seen too many who talk the talk and when I have them in front of a beast and they are ready to shoot, they then lift their heads to see where the safety is !!!! But again that is just my opinion which works for me.. J
Stalker62
Well-Known Member
Similar threads
