Normal Life - when ?

[Hayduke]

Well your comments are making my blood boil!!!!

My daughter a sister on high dependency unit (hdu), is working 13 hour shifts, they are that short staffed she rarely gets a break. After a night shift and on a sleeping day she is often phoned and asked to come in at short notice.

She is physically and mentally exhausted! She has pressure sores all around her face from the PPE. She is along with her colleagues nursing patients with very serious ailments, which include heart, lung, kidney transplants, and Covid patients!

She is also tasked with having to be the last person to hold the hand of a dying person before having to inform a relative of their death!!!!!

I spoke with her this morning and my beautiful young girl was sobbing and telling me she has a bad back because of having to turn heavy unconscious dead weight patients, so they can breath!!

DON’T YOU BLOODY WELL SLAG OFF the NHS!!!!

A very angry G.

Glade your girl is a star as are all the nurses at the coal face.

My family and friends also work at the coal face with the sick and dying every day through this pandemic, folks dying who should have had years more life. They tell me there are departments that hide the lazy and inefficient. There are parts of the NHS that are a sh!t show, could be much better.

 

[long_range_rob]

Normal life. No such thing.

 

[Glade]

God forbid she’s having to do work whilst doing a job of her choosing! What’s next soldiers getting upset because they get sent to Afghanistan ?

It also must be nice knowing that she’s in a job for life no matter how currently unpleasant the situation is whilst millions of others face uncertainty of the likes never seen before.

Whilst I have no axe to grind with frontline workers as they are only doing there job. The whole organisation is riddled with inefficiencies that hold it back. Not to mention the obvious disparities in available care between post codes which is disproportionately unfair to many.

After seven years without the NHS coming back to the UK “free healthcare” system was a shock to the system at how poor it’s got.

Rasputin ( as your name indicates).
Your just a an effing moron!!
No response necessary ‘cos your blocked.
G

 

[glasshalffull]

Well your comments are making my blood boil!!!!

My daughter a sister on high dependency unit (hdu), is working 13 hour shifts, they are that short staffed she rarely gets a break. After a night shift and on a sleeping day she is often phoned and asked to come in at short notice.

She is physically and mentally exhausted! She has pressure sores all around her face from the PPE. She is along with her colleagues nursing patients with very serious ailments, which include heart, lung, kidney transplants, and Covid patients!

She is also tasked with having to be the last person to hold the hand of a dying person before having to inform a relative of their death!!!!!

I spoke with her this morning and my beautiful young girl was sobbing and telling me she has a bad back because of having to turn heavy unconscious dead weight patients, so they can breath!!

DON’T YOU BLOODY WELL SLAG OFF the NHS!!!!

A very angry G.

Short staffed because of the waste of money being paid to pen pusher's within the NHS umbrella that do nothing for patient care but are in charge of the purse strings so award themselves with pay increments when they show they've saved money within the trust by cutting the number of real NHS staff professional and associates what are hands on in patient care. Honestly they're numbers have been swelled to unbelievable levels as they know the speak to award themselves. Within the laboratory service I worked in for 30+yrs management used to process patients samples as well as non management. Each department had one manager. But now each department has several managers whom sit at a screen all day every day and shuffling papers but haven't processed a sample for years, totally useless waste of money. As for wards within the hospital, bring back matron, one boss and all hands on deck. Too many managers are choking the life out of the NHS and too much paperwork in my opinion. But these are the times we live in.

 

[topscots1]

God forbid she’s having to do work whilst doing a job of her choosing! What’s next soldiers getting upset because they get sent to Afghanistan ?

It also must be nice knowing that she’s in a job for life no matter how currently unpleasant the situation is whilst millions of others face uncertainty of the likes never seen before.

Whilst I have no axe to grind with frontline workers as they are only doing there job. The whole organisation is riddled with inefficiencies that hold it back. Not to mention the obvious disparities in available care between post codes which is disproportionately unfair to many.

After seven years without the NHS coming back to the UK “free healthcare” system was a shock to the system at how poor it’s got.

I was going to merrily read and move along. Having been that soldier, no one complained about the job. They did complain about the idle weak willed politicians that decided to withdraw from successful campaigns to gain votes. Along with over educated overpaid clowns that make up much ( not all) off the FCO. Deciding how best to do things in some cases without leaving London. So yes soldiers do get upset by the idiots that run the country.

As for NHS my other half is currently a student nurse doing twelve hour shifts working not learning. To be told that if she contracts Covid or dies on placement she is not entitled to death benefits. Her current ward has eight staff all of whom have had Covid some still suffering the long term effects. The reality is the frontline workers of the NHS have stepped up to the plate. They are let down by arrogant, over educated, incompetent management and government planning. As for a job for life they need to live long enough to see the pension.

I have spent years living abroad seeing how other countries health care works. Yes some are considerably better. And considerably more expensive.

An overhaul of management and a redesign of our political system would show vast rewards.

 

[glasshalffull]

I was going to merrily read and move along. Having been that soldier, no one complained about the job. They did complain about the idle weak willed politicians that decided to withdraw from successful campaigns to gain votes. Along with over educated overpaid clowns that make up much ( not all) off the FCO. Deciding how best to do things in some cases without leaving London. So yes soldiers do get upset by the idiots that run the country.

As for NHS my other half is currently a student nurse doing twelve hour shifts working not learning. To be told that if she contracts Covid or dies on placement she is not entitled to death benefits. Her current ward has eight staff all of whom have had Covid some still suffering the long term effects. The reality is the frontline workers of the NHS have stepped up to the plate. They are let down by arrogant, over educated, incompetent management and government planning. As for a job for life they need to live long enough to see the pension.

I have spent years living abroad seeing how other countries health care works. Yes some are considerably better. And considerably more expensive.

An overhaul of management and a redesign of our political system would show vast rewards.

Problem in this is the management won't overhaul the management

 

[topscots1]

Problem in this is the management won't overhaul the management

Exactly, people sat at the top getting rich. And just as many career politicians with the life experience of a goldfish.

 

[Hayduke]

I sh!t you not, I have a friend who a year out from being a fully trained and qualified consultant - probably at cost to the taxpayer north of £1 million - told me she was going to do an MBA. When I asked why someone who is a sawbones and does their work with a blade needs an MBA. Her response: "so that she could communicate effectively with other hospital departments!" Madness.

 

[User00043]

Personally I have nothing but praise for our NHS
In April 2019 I was experiencing small amounts of blood and clots in my urine, I phoned my local medical centre and explain the problem and was seen by my doctor within the hour
I was told I would be fast tracked for a flexible cystoscopy and a CT Scan both of which I received appointments for within the next few 4 days
Prior to this in 2017 I underwent a partial prostatectomy and the flexible cystoscopy showed prostate re-growth that may have caused the bleed
2 days later I had the CT scan to check kidney function and it was found that I had a renal mass on my left kidney and was subsequently diagnosed with kidney cancer
After discussing surgery options with my urologist I was admitted to Addenbrookes Hospital on 11th July 2019 for robotic partial nephrectomy an discharged on the 12th
Luckily the cancer was caught in it's early stages and i was told that the chances of recurrence were low
Follow scans were delayed due to covid just done around 3 weeks ago and i have heard nothing back so far (Hopefully a good sign)

 

[enfieldspares]

In the early 1990s I worked what was to be the very last year of the "old" NHS and the very first year of Thatcher's new "Trust" system. I can assure all that the amount of money that was wasted under the new system was phenomenal. The NHS has become a sacred cow when in reality is is and always was inefficient and costly. It is appalling compared to the French system. But at least then that money wasn't going into the pockets of SERCO.

As an analogy the old Royal Ordnance Enfield and Radway Green system was also inefficient and costly. But like the old pre-Thatcher NHS that was because it had an inbuilt slack. In effect the old NHS like the old Royal Ordnance factories rolled along in second or third gear with an ability if needed to then effortlessly move up to fourth gear. So yes in normal times it was inefficient and costly.

Some four years back my GP here in the UK believed that I may have bowel cancer so requested as urgent a colonoscopy after a near half year of seeing if this or that medicine would make a difference. Three months and nothing was arranged except a telephone appointment with the specialist so that on paper it could be reported back that the patient...me...had been seen by a specialist. Another four months and finally I had the "urgent" scan done.

In France where I was working at the time my wife then living there was registered with the French health service. One one visit to her French GP I mentioned about the colonoscopy delay in the UK. He asked if I wanted to have one done through the French system. I asked how long it would take. His reply was "If you've not eaten anything today and have an empty stomach and bowel I can book you in for tomorrow. If not I'll book you in for the day after."

The NHS kills people with cancer because it works upwards to diagnose. On the basis of assuming that whatever you have is the least worst and if the remedy for that doesn't work treating you for the next worst thing it could be and then the next worst after that until finally they decide that it might be cancer and decide to test you for that. Why? Because it is the practice of medicine done on the cheap.

The French system (as with most top rank health services) works the other way. It diagnoses downwards. It immediately tests for what is the worst case possible scenario and then when that is possible cause is eliminated tests for the next worst case cause and so on down. That has the effect that cancer or any other life threatening illness is detected early not left to continue to become more severe.

Anyone that thinks that the NHS is the "best healthcare system in the world" of that it is "free" is living in cuckoo land. It isn't and the amount of money in both direct and indirect taxes that individuals pay towards make it anything but "free" in real terms. Yes you don't get a bill when you use it but over the course of your three score years and ten life expectancy you've paid through the nose, and paid handsomely, to actually not get a bill when you use it..

 

[308tikka]

Its a mixed bag, one local hospital is crap, while another cant do enough for you.
Unfortunately 6 weeks ago I was attending a pre surgery check before a minor operation when they found I had extremely
high blood pressure, surgery postponed, without seeing me my doctor prescribed medication, a week after back to doctors for a blood pressure check.
Still very high, medication doubled, weeks later back to hospital, my doctor prescribed more medication. after week back to hospital and blood pressure is a fraction lower, bu no real change. Hospital calls my doctor, doctor doubles my medication yet again. Warned by hospital to not exert myself, stop when ever i am short of breath and they will see me in two weeks. Blood pressure so high the hospicsay warn I could easily have a heart attack, yet doctor doesn't need to see me apparently.
To sum up I'd say if you are healthy with nothing at all wrong then the NHS is good as can be expected under the present circumstances.
If on the other hand you have something wrong your'e up **** creek with a broken paddle.


Neil.

I am sad to hear this. Check out independent Nuffield hospitals for another opinion and proper checkup. You might have entirely the wrong medication or dose.

 

[308tikka]

In the early 1990s I worked what was to be the very last year of the "old" NHS and the very first year of Thatcher's new "Trust" system. I can assure all that the amount of money that was wasted under the new system was phenomenal. The NHS has become a sacred cow when in reality is is and always was inefficient and costly. It is appalling compared to the French system. But at least then that money wasn't going into the pockets of SERCO.

Some four years back my GP here in the UK believed that I may have bowel cancer so requested as urgent a colonoscopy after a near half year of seeing if this or that medicine would make a difference. Three months and nothing was arranged except a telephone appointment with the specialist so that on paper it could be reported back that the patient...me...had been seen by a specialist. Another four months and finally I had the "urgent" scan done.

In France where I was working at the time my wife then living there was registered with the French health service. One one visit to her French GP I mentioned about the colonoscopy delay in the UK. He asked if I wanted to have one done through the French system. I asked how long it would take. His reply was "If you've not eaten anything today and have an empty stomach and bowel I can book you in for tomorrow. If not I'll book you in for the day after."

The NHS kills people with cancer because it works upwards to diagnose. On the basis of assuming that whatever you have is the least worst and if the remedy for that doesn't work treating you for the next worst thing it could be and then the next worst after that until finally they decide that it might be cancer and decide to test you for that.

The French system (as with most top rank health services) works the other way. Downwards. It immediately tests for what is the worst case possible scenario and then when that is possible cause is eliminated tests for the next worst case cause and so on down. That was cancer is detected early not left to continue to become more severe.

Anyone that thinks that the NHS is the "best healthcare system in the world" of that it is "free" is living in cuckoo land. It isn't and the amount of money in both direct and indirect taxes that individuals pay towards make it anything but "free" in real terms. Yes you don't get a bill when you use it but over the course of your three score years and ten life expectancy you've paid through the nose, and paid handsomely, to actually not get a bill when you use it..

In the early 1990s I worked what was to be the very last year of the "old" NHS and the very first year of Thatcher's new "Trust" system. I can assure all that the amount of money that was wasted under the new system was phenomenal. The NHS has become a sacred cow when in reality is is and always was inefficient and costly. It is appalling compared to the French system. But at least then that money wasn't going into the pockets of SERCO.

Some four years back my GP here in the UK believed that I may have bowel cancer so requested as urgent a colonoscopy after a near half year of seeing if this or that medicine would make a difference. Three months and nothing was arranged except a telephone appointment with the specialist so that on paper it could be reported back that the patient...me...had been seen by a specialist. Another four months and finally I had the "urgent" scan done.

In France where I was working at the time my wife then living there was registered with the French health service. One one visit to her French GP I mentioned about the colonoscopy delay in the UK. He asked if I wanted to have one done through the French system. I asked how long it would take. His reply was "If you've not eaten anything today and have an empty stomach and bowel I can book you in for tomorrow. If not I'll book you in for the day after."

The NHS kills people with cancer because it works upwards to diagnose. On the basis of assuming that whatever you have is the least worst and if the remedy for that doesn't work treating you for the next worst thing it could be and then the next worst after that until finally they decide that it might be cancer and decide to test you for that.

The French system (as with most top rank health services) works the other way. Downwards. It immediately tests for what is the worst case possible scenario and then when that is possible cause is eliminated tests for the next worst case cause and so on down. That was cancer is detected early not left to continue to become more severe.

Anyone that thinks that the NHS is the "best healthcare system in the world" of that it is "free" is living in cuckoo land. It isn't and the amount of money in both direct and indirect taxes that individuals pay towards make it anything but "free" in real terms. Yes you don't get a bill when you use it but over the course of your three score years and ten life expectancy you've paid through the nose, and paid handsomely, to actually not get a bill when you use it..

The NHS saved my life many years ago. However today it is nowhere near as good as the German system when I had to use that. The Austrian system was also excellent for a friend who sustained serious injuries (not skiing).

The NHS is now a political prisoner.

 

[Bavarianbrit]

In the early 1990s I worked what was to be the very last year of the "old" NHS and the very first year of Thatcher's new "Trust" system. I can assure all that the amount of money that was wasted under the new system was phenomenal. The NHS has become a sacred cow when in reality is is and always was inefficient and costly. It is appalling compared to the French system. But at least then that money wasn't going into the pockets of SERCO.

Some four years back my GP here in the UK believed that I may have bowel cancer so requested as urgent a colonoscopy after a near half year of seeing if this or that medicine would make a difference. Three months and nothing was arranged except a telephone appointment with the specialist so that on paper it could be reported back that the patient...me...had been seen by a specialist. Another four months and finally I had the "urgent" scan done.

In France where I was working at the time my wife then living there was registered with the French health service. One one visit to her French GP I mentioned about the colonoscopy delay in the UK. He asked if I wanted to have one done through the French system. I asked how long it would take. His reply was "If you've not eaten anything today and have an empty stomach and bowel I can book you in for tomorrow. If not I'll book you in for the day after."

The NHS kills people with cancer because it works upwards to diagnose. On the basis of assuming that whatever you have is the least worst and if the remedy for that doesn't work treating you for the next worst thing it could be and then the next worst after that until finally they decide that it might be cancer and decide to test you for that.

The French system (as with most top rank health services) works the other way. Downwards. It immediately tests for what is the worst case possible scenario and then when that is possible cause is eliminated tests for the next worst case cause and so on down. That was cancer is detected early not left to continue to become more severe.

Anyone that thinks that the NHS is the "best healthcare system in the world" of that it is "free" is living in cuckoo land. It isn't and the amount of money in both direct and indirect taxes that individuals pay towards make it anything but "free" in real terms. Yes you don't get a bill when you use it but over the course of your three score years and ten life expectancy you've paid through the nose, and paid handsomely, to actually not get a bill when you use it..

I pay 126 Euros per month in Germany for private health care and so far have had all my treatments done asap and am very happy with it. The wife has the German state care deal and she got first hip at 38 then the other hip at 65 and she went off to 4 weeks therapy in clinics after each op. We left the UK after 16 years as she was not prepared to risk living under NHS rules.

 

[dartmoordog]

The point that those amazing frontline staff have to burn themselves out, causing physical and mental harm to themselves, is proof alone that the NHS is not fit for purpose, and it isn’t, despite all the success stories, there are an awful lot of negatives. The NHS is, and has been shafted.

A couple of years ago, I met an ageing chap on a ferry to France who I vaguely knew, during conversation the reason for his trip was to settle into his new home.......He feared growing old in the UK under the NHS, the French system is far, far superior.

 

[kes]

It seems its simply a matter or management organisational ineptitude - if you go for a private appointment you get seen and on time - in the NHS they gather a room full of people and tick them off not worrying when they are seen - it can be better organised and needs to be. For the money it consumes it should be like an oiled machine and everyone, including the staff would benefit.
I don't know the French system but anything the French can do, we can do better. How is their system paid for ?

 

[Dunwaters]

A return to normal is up to us, we’re going to have to take a hard look at the true cost of rolling lockdown.
For a start there’s no amateur sports, you can’t organise a fixture schedule, no celebration of births marriages deaths or birthdays, you can’t go for a meal or a pint or a cup of coffee. Outdoor hobbies are out, you can’t go for a drive or a dander or to the shops.
Just about everything that makes society tick is on indefinite hold.
That’s just too high a price for my liking.
We’re on #5 lockdown TIL December, that gets us from 3 to 6 weeks of level 3 over Christmas and new year then back up to #5 again according to one of the modelling experts.
This is crazy, like it or not herd immunity is the only viable option, either by exposure or inoculation.

 

[Ade8mm]

The NHS is indeed a holy cow. It is clearly riddled with mis-management and ineptitude and probably always has been.

This is as clear as the nose on one's face. Yet no one dare criticise. It would be the kiss of death for any government to do so, even if the criticism were constructive.

Anyone who dares criticise the NHS is treated with as much contempt as a racist or peodophile.

People confuse constructive criticism of the NHS as criticism of worthy individuals who work in it which is not the same thing (as we have seen on SD)

The organisation/institution that could not benefit from constructive criticism does not exist.

 

[enfieldspares]

I don't know the French system but anything the French can do, we can do better. How is their system paid for ?

You get at Carte Vitale that is the state medical card and that pays approximately 50% to 80% of your medical bills. Some conditions (there is a list) the state pays 100% of your medical bills...appointments and medication. One such is rheumatoid-arthritis.

What the state doesn't pay you pay yourself and then get that back if you have private health insurance or have it through work. These insurance companies are called "mutuals" as in the Mutual Insurance type of company. Doctor's appointments you pay 20 Euro but again can get that re-imbursed. Thus there are virtually no missed GP appointments in France.

Things like blood tests and x-rays are done often at independent "laboratories" *as they are called) that offer such. These are many. And again you re-claim the cost that isn't covered by the French state on your Carte Vitale via your "mutual". As the patient you can choose anyone of these to have such a test performed. The GP gives you a "scrip" and you turn up (or book) at one of the places and get it done.

The test results and x-rays are your property. They give them to you and you take them back to your GP. When he/she has seen them you still keep them.

 

[kes]

You get at Carte Vitale that is the state medical card and that pays approximately 50% to 80% of your medical bills. Some conditions (there is a list) the state pays 100% of your medical bills...appointments and medication. One such is rheumatoid-arthritis.

What the state doesn't pay you pay yourself and then get that back if you have private health insurance or have it through work. These insurance companies are called "mutuals" as in the Mutual Insurance type of company. Doctor's appointments you pay 20 Euro but again can get that re-imbursed. Thus there are virtually no missed GP appointments in France.

Things like blood tests and x-rays are done often at independent "laboratories" *as they are called) that offer such. These are many. And again you re-claim the cost that isn't covered by the French state on your Carte Vitale via your "mutual". As the patient you can choose anyone of these to have such a test performed. The GP gives you a "scrip" and you turn up (or book) at one of the places and get it done.

The test results and x-rays are your property. They give them to you and you take them back to your GP. When he/she has seen them you still keep them.

Thanks Enfield, sounds a bit bureaucratic for oldies and the youngest but I wonder how much it costs in individual tax/ government spending. Almost but not quite a Cradle to the Grave service but working.

 

[kes]

You get at Carte Vitale that is the state medical card and that pays approximately 50% to 80% of your medical bills. Some conditions (there is a list) the state pays 100% of your medical bills...appointments and medication. One such is rheumatoid-arthritis.

What the state doesn't pay you pay yourself and then get that back if you have private health insurance or have it through work. These insurance companies are called "mutuals" as in the Mutual Insurance type of company. Doctor's appointments you pay 20 Euro but again can get that re-imbursed. Thus there are virtually no missed GP appointments in France.

Things like blood tests and x-rays are done often at independent "laboratories" *as they are called) that offer such. These are many. And again you re-claim the cost that isn't covered by the French state on your Carte Vitale via your "mutual". As the patient you can choose anyone of these to have such a test performed. The GP gives you a "scrip" and you turn up (or book) at one of the places and get it done.

The test results and x-rays are your property. They give them to you and you take them back to your GP. When he/she has seen them you still keep them.

Thanks Enfield, sounds a bit bureaucratic for oldies and the youngest but I wonder how much it costs in individual tax/ government spending. Almost but not quite a Cradle to the Grave service but working. Paying a little for something would focus minds to attend, except those on any form of benefit.