bluesako
Well-Known Member
or wear them stupid leather cowboy hats and wellies at the N.E.C. shootin show
Busting the myth of camouflage clothing
- Thread starter tdawson
- Start date
One of the only reasons i used to go, looking at the plonkers get all dressed up in their fancy dress outfits, nice new clean Tweed jacket, plus fours, cravat Deer stalker hat and the nice clean Deer antler thumb stick.
Oh and dont forget your going to need a Jacuzzi too while carrying on your country pursuits.
You are absolutely correct - I have walked about with a rifle, seen nothing then drive past the same spot in a tractor and the deer don’t seem all that bothered!This comment is clearly anecdotal and wiser folks may have a more scientific answer - but it certainly seems to me that there is, at least, an element of deer “sensing” or being able to differentiate a threat. I’ve worked for a short while for a haulage company just outside of Oban on a timber crane wagon. A lot of the work we did was on the same estate that I’ve done some basic ghillie work for. You could be sat in the crane cab working away loading trailers with logs and the reds would pay between little or no attention. An occasional sideways glance. Equally if I ever visit my pal on the same estate you often drive past a good 20-30 deer grazing in the lower fields - many time I’ve stopped to take a picture - they don’t bat an eyelid. Get up on the hill and unzip the rifle from the bag..... and a very different story!!
Indeed, two days of blank red stag stalking last week and then turn up in our yard for work on Sunday morning and two roe bucks just stood in front of the car - didn’t even wander off when I fired the wagon up..... I’m convinced they were chuckling..... “look at that tosser - he’s left his rifle at home”
I used to wonder the same...
Having noted the air-soft boys in camouflage and full armour running around at the Shooting Show...I deliberately wore non-shooting gear when I went subsequently....but then I stopped being quite so smug when I went one time with the express purpose of buying a shotgun and realised I should be trying them whilst wearing the clothes I would be wearing when using it.
I now don't give a second thought to the guys at the range in full cammo gear presumably for the similar reasons as mine.
Alan
Optifade is quite an interesting one.
It’s taken the pixel approach used in marpat and tried to add some higher level blocking to give it more disruption at distance (and then added a bit of art to make it look nice).
I’ve not had first hand experience with it, but my guess is that it would work about the same as MTP (so a good general use pattern), with the down side that you pay a premium to use it.
It’s telling that most militaries are moving away from pixelated patterns, and are converging back onto disruptive patterns.
monarman
Well-Known Member
If you believe the story behind optifade it was developed using science .....
Mtp was developed as an around camo pattern to be used in different area thus negating the need for different patterns such as the original dpm and the desert pattern ....
The tropical mtp is a greener version of the standard mtp (multi terrain pattern).... its better in my opinion..
Mtp was developed as an around camo pattern to be used in different area thus negating the need for different patterns such as the original dpm and the desert pattern ....
The tropical mtp is a greener version of the standard mtp (multi terrain pattern).... its better in my opinion..
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
Huge fail!
enfieldspares
Well-Known Member
The Nazis pretty much got it right back in late to mid WWII and we Brits with the Denison smock. Both but in different ways try to break up or "disrupt" the eye from making out the figure of a man.
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
A set of these would mess with the deers heads i think, maybe worth a try down south ,hhmmm not sure! 
ChesterP
Well-Known Member
Yes, I believe that it's designed to be more effective at distance, which was one of the reasons for the UK forces adopting MTP which also has an element of being better at distance even though the primary purpose was to replace separate desert and European woodland DPM (although it does seem to stand out like sore thumb up close!). A separate interesting observation is why the separate USA military forces all seem to adopt different camo patterns for the same theatres of war. Goes to show that with lots of research even they can't agree on a standard.
Of all the older cammo types come across, the most effective seem to me to be the ones with plenty of bright patches to help break up the outline. Of the Optifade types I've used the Deerhunter Recon seems to be the most effective. It's a subtle effect but there's no doubt that at distance, whilst none of these cammo types will mask movement or shine etc, the new digital designs do more effectively hide an outline, as long as it's not skylined, at distance.
All said an done, the only reason I wear the stuff is to try and make it harder for people like walkers from spotting me as I have had the police descend on one permission because a walker called the police and they said they had to respond as the complainant said "should there be a bloke there walking about armed?". PITA for all involved including the police, so now I don't give a fig what others think, I'll stick with anything to make me less conspicuous.
As for the "cowboy hats", well actually most are patterned on the Aussi Outback hat and they're blinking sensible in our climate. Keeps the sun from the eyes and keeps the rain from going down the neck!. There's a reason they're popular. I've had mine for donkeys years and I much prefer it to the more common baseball caps.
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Buggadifino
Well-Known Member
Some good stuff on here but just to add deer see further into the blue/green area of the spectrum we do so do not wash your gear (whatever your poison) in colour enhancing detergent or your will literally glow int the dark (to deer anyway). In certain light it is possible for humans also to detect a slight 'halo'.
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
Foxyboy43
Well-Known Member
I am sooooo glad I recently joined this eclectic bunch (predictive said "butch!!) of discerning gentlemen! The myriad opinions fill my heart with a warm glow that only a fine malt could rival. Indeed I shall slip into the arms of Morpheus tonight thinking only of me in luminous camo, cowboy hat, knees atremble, fat old hags in tweeds and conker boots (phhhoooawww!) and the delightful bouquet of the ferret tent. Bless!
PS at the last show apparently the ferrets complained about the bad smell behind their tent - go figure!!
PS at the last show apparently the ferrets complained about the bad smell behind their tent - go figure!!
I do sometimes wonder if its to create a recognisable image to further the 'brand' of that service.
The desire to be different and cultivate a regimental brand is definitely rife thoughout the British Army, so I can only imagine that it exists in the US military as well.
Exactly this.
There was an analysis done about 8 years ago that showed that the divergent patterns across all the NATO affiliated armies had nothing to do with camouflage and was to do with creating distinct identities.
If it was about camouflage, they’d all look the same... which they are starting to, with the gradual triumph of Multicam derived patterns.
Similarly, in the US, RealTree is as much a political statement as a concealment tool.
John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
All that analysis means Jack Schitt when it comes to reality and wearing 3D and getting in tight with a bush dwelling deer.
Here is an oldie,I love the humour.
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Here is an oldie,I love the humour.
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countrryboy
Well-Known Member
Was there not a study done a few years ago that reckoned ur as well with 4 big blotches of colour ( like Harlequins rugby shirt) as too a deer it just looks so random and completely breaks up ur outline.
Like others have said earlier most camo patterns will just look like a greenish human shaped blob from a distance.
I think boggy said something similar on 1dt page about mixing ur colours of trousers, jacket and hat.
Also ur face and hands stand out like mad no matter wot cammo u wear.
Seen me on fox drives with gloves on and face veil standing in front of big trees rather than behind them and seen deer walking out withing meters of me give me a funny look and either just stand looking or walk past its only when they catch my scent they run off.
When ur looking along the line of other guns all wearing different cammo or greens etc, it is there faces hands and on sunny days there gun barrels glinting that stand out, atleast to human eyes anyway
I mind a mate went up north to work on an estate and came back a few years later for a keepers day wearing the most ridiculous coloured tweeds u could imagine all white Grey's and blues but he reckoned on his ground in blends in great, think lot of granite, scree and white grass on that estate.
And he sent a photo later and he was right.
U see on those alaskan 'realaity type programmes where subsistence hunting and they just seem to where any colour jacket they want.
Dunno if that's purely for the TV thou, yet u watch the odd chainsaw/forestry show in the lower 48 and they're all wearing camo when they really should be in hi Viz.
The only time I buy cammo is if in a sale and exceptionally cheap normally wouldn't buy it
Like others have said earlier most camo patterns will just look like a greenish human shaped blob from a distance.
I think boggy said something similar on 1dt page about mixing ur colours of trousers, jacket and hat.
Also ur face and hands stand out like mad no matter wot cammo u wear.
Seen me on fox drives with gloves on and face veil standing in front of big trees rather than behind them and seen deer walking out withing meters of me give me a funny look and either just stand looking or walk past its only when they catch my scent they run off.
When ur looking along the line of other guns all wearing different cammo or greens etc, it is there faces hands and on sunny days there gun barrels glinting that stand out, atleast to human eyes anyway
I mind a mate went up north to work on an estate and came back a few years later for a keepers day wearing the most ridiculous coloured tweeds u could imagine all white Grey's and blues but he reckoned on his ground in blends in great, think lot of granite, scree and white grass on that estate.
And he sent a photo later and he was right.
U see on those alaskan 'realaity type programmes where subsistence hunting and they just seem to where any colour jacket they want.
Dunno if that's purely for the TV thou, yet u watch the odd chainsaw/forestry show in the lower 48 and they're all wearing camo when they really should be in hi Viz.
The only time I buy cammo is if in a sale and exceptionally cheap normally wouldn't buy it
AN DU RU FOX
Well-Known Member
I bought my camo t shirts because they where dirt cheap at the time,no other reason because like most folk its hidden under four other layers! i have two camo coats but i got those again at the time they where cheap plus they where for bunnies/fox also funny because i wear them in the dark! my camo fleece i got from decathlon ,you see where i,m going here (cheap) and there again no one sees it as when i wear it its freezing and a coat on top or i,m on my own in the middle of a pile of trees.i don,t think the deer know any of this or how cheap i am. but in my mind? i,m invisible in fact i,m not really here i,m on another thread now.
Rhodesianjess
Well-Known Member
WWll camo pattern larger blobs of colour, russian pattern was called aemoba I think?
Rhodesian issue was much the same, lot larger than modern, worked ok in our environment.
Haven't seen similar for years.
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