Tories to ban more guns...

[enfieldspares]

Because as we all know shooting and ownership of guns is always safe under the Tories. Supposedly the calibres are:

– .320 British (also known as .320 Revolver CF, short or long)
– .41 Colt (short or long)
– .44 Smith and Wesson Russian
– .442 Revolver (also known as .44 Webley)
– 9.4mm Dutch Revolver
– 10.6mm German Ordnance Revolver
– 11mm French Ordnance Revolver M1873 (Army)

Government closes antique firearms loopholes to protect public

The new measures target antique firearms used in violent crime and mean that up to 26,000 guns will now require firearms licences.

www.gov.uk

 

[Apthorpe]

Misleading headline? What is actually being banned? The link doesn't mention banning anything.

 

[Mike L]

That's totally crap, I wonder if there will be a specific firearms certificate introduced for this or the poor buggers will have to jump through hops like the rest of us?

 

[SpikeD]

I believe this is a response to the activities of the RFD Paul Edmunds selling significant quantities antique revolvers in those calibers with ammunition made to fit. A number of these were subsequently used in murder cases and the number of antique firearms recovered at crime scenes has significantly increased to he point that it's clearly an issue. This wasn't helped by a BBC documentary where they paid for a BBC journalist to fly to the States and bring back in a .44" Russian revolver just to show how easily it was done.
All of those calibers being banned are straight walled cases and very easy to make from others so I am not surprised it’s come to this. The .44” Russian in particular from .44” Special or magnum.

On the plus side the following will now be added to section 58

.26 BSA (.26 Rimless Belted Nitro Express)
.33 BSA (.33 Rimless Belted Nitro Express)
.360 No 2 Nitro Express
.40 BSA (.40 Rimless Belted Nitro Express)
.400/360 2 ¾ in Nitro Express
.425 Westley Richards Magnum
.475 x 3 ¼ in Nitro Express
.475 No 2 Jeffery Nitro Express
.475 No 2 Nitro Express
.476 Nitro Express (.476 Westley Richards)
.50-90 2 ½ inch
.50-110 2.4 inch
.577 – 3 in (Black Powder & Nitro Express)
.577 – 3 ¼ in (Black Powder & Nitro Express)
6.5 x 53mm R Mannlicher (Dutch/Romanian)
8 x 56mm Mannlicher Schoenauer
8 x 58 mm R Krag
8 mm Murata
9 x 56mm Mannlicher Schoenauer
9 x 57mm R Mauser
9 x 57mm Rimless Mauser
9.5 x 57mm Mannlicher Schoenauer
8mm Roth Steyr

Link to document is below

https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/933597/Govt_Response_09-11-2020.pdf

 

[splash]

While I don’t like more restrictions, we need to blame the lawless not the lawmakers.
If the system is being abused then is it not our job to stop the people who abuse it ?
Most of us have seen some other shooter doing something that should be stopped and turned a blind eye ?

 

[stubear]

Hang on, its not a ban - this to me actually looks to be a sensible response to an identified issue.

Certain guns and ammo were classed as "antique" therefore meaning you didnt need an FAC to own them. Scrotes have then been using that loophole to get hold of operational firearms which have been committed in crimes, so the government has said "ok now you need an FAC for them and they'll be licenced like any other firearm".

That doesnt sound unreasonable to me, unless I'm missing something?

 

[enfieldspares]

Thank you SPIKE D for the link to the Home Office document. That is most helpful. Thank you.

 

[enfieldspares]

Hang on, its not a ban - this to me actually looks to be a sensible response to an identified issue.

That doesnt sound unreasonable to me, unless I'm missing something?

Yes. You are missing this. The reality is that It is a de facto ban. Be in no doubt of that. These things have gone from no control to full control under the Firearms Act as it applies to "small firearms" or in other words handguns.

Yes. Those that say it isn't a ban are missing this. The reality is that It is a de facto ban. Be in no doubt of that.

The requirement for weapons held on an FAC will mean secure storage, two referees, the FAC fee as applicable and, of course, input from the applicant's GP or Doctor. The fee is presently £88 for the grant of an FAC where currently an applicant has no FAC.

These things have gone from no control to full control under the Firearms Act as it currently and now applies to "small firearms" or in other words handguns. And those that buy and sell such things as part of a business will require s5.

The detail from the document as linked to above makes this clear.

"This will mean that from the date the new regulations take effect, all firearms chambered for use with the above cartridges will become subject to firearms licensing. Section 126 of the Policing and Crime Act 2017 will be brought fully into effect and will allow existing owners to retain such weapons on a firearm certificate without having to show good reason and, in the case of prohibited weapons, without the need for the Secretary of State’s authority under section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 (but not in the case of dealers who wish to possess the weapons for the purpose of their business).

 

[Tim.243]

Because as we all know shooting and ownership of guns is always safe under the Tories. Supposedly the calibres are:

– .320 British (also known as .320 Revolver CF, short or long)
– .41 Colt (short or long)
– .44 Smith and Wesson Russian
– .442 Revolver (also known as .44 Webley)
– 9.4mm Dutch Revolver
– 10.6mm German Ordnance Revolver
– 11mm French Ordnance Revolver M1873 (Army)

Government closes antique firearms loopholes to protect public

The new measures target antique firearms used in violent crime and mean that up to 26,000 guns will now require firearms licences.

www.gov.uk

Good....make room for something that will get used instead of being polished......

 

[Dalua]

Hang on, its not a ban - this to me actually looks to be a sensible response to an identified issue.

We should start from the point that it is already unlawful to use firearms for criminal purposes.
To know whether the response is proportionate (I hesitate to use 'sensible', as that invited even more interpretation), I think one would need to know what proportion of firearms used by criminals are indeed currently uncontrolled 'antiques'. Then, it would not be unreasonble to find out whether those who used them would have been prevent from comitting their crimes armed if the pistol that was uncontrolled before they loaded it with the intention to fire it had not been available: i.e. would they have got a pistol from somewhere else instead?

My understanding is that the rate of armed crime is limited by the number of folk willing to undertake it, rather than by the availability of suitable weapons.

If that is so, might it be disproportionate to apply stringent controls on collectors of antique/historical firearms if the result will be to inconvenience the collectors, while leaving the armed criminals untroubled?

 

[cjm1066]

I am so pleased that the shooting organisations I belong to haven't notified me of this.

 

[N1mr0d]

I am so pleased that the shooting organisations I belong to haven't notified me of this.

that will be because it does not affect their high number driven days agendas so they can agree that this is a good move and appear concilliatory whilst dumping anyone who persues a different form of shooting or in this case collecting under a bus with absolutely no compunction. It rather sums them up for what they are.

 

[stubear]

Yes. You are missing this. The reality is that It is a de facto ban. Be in no doubt of that. These things have gone from no control to full control under the Firearms Act as it applies to "small firearms" or in other words handguns.

Yes. Those that say it isn't a ban are missing this. The reality is that It is a de facto ban. Be in no doubt of that.

The requirement for weapons held on an FAC will mean secure storage, two referees, the FAC fee as applicable and, of course, input from the applicant's GP or Doctor. The fee is presently £88 for the grant of an FAC where currently an applicant has no FAC.

These things have gone from no control to full control under the Firearms Act as it currently and now applies to "small firearms" or in other words handguns. And those that buy and sell such things as part of a business will require s5.

The detail from the document as linked to above makes this clear.

"This will mean that from the date the new regulations take effect, all firearms chambered for use with the above cartridges will become subject to firearms licensing. Section 126 of the Policing and Crime Act 2017 will be brought fully into effect and will allow existing owners to retain such weapons on a firearm certificate without having to show good reason and, in the case of prohibited weapons, without the need for the Secretary of State’s authority under section 5 of the Firearms Act 1968 (but not in the case of dealers who wish to possess the weapons for the purpose of their business).

Yes - correct. So not a ban then?

Existing owners will be allowed to retain such firearms (not weapons) on an FAC without having to show good reason, and without the secretary of states permission if its a prohibited firearm.

IE If I own one now then post this legislation I just need to apply for an FAC which I know will be granted and I wont have to dispose of anything. It says it right there in the text you shared.

And this wouldnt be applicable for RFDs as they can pretty much buy and sell what they want to for the purposes of their business.

 

[mchughcb]

Hang on, its not a ban - this to me actually looks to be a sensible response to an identified issue.

Certain guns and ammo were classed as "antique" therefore meaning you didnt need an FAC to own them. Scrotes have then been using that loophole to get hold of operational firearms which have been committed in crimes, so the government has said "ok now you need an FAC for them and they'll be licenced like any other firearm".

That doesnt sound unreasonable to me, unless I'm missing something?

Just curious who are the scrotes, who are the criminals , what type of crimes are they committing?

 

[stubear]

Just curious who are the scrotes, who are the criminals , what type of crimes are they committing?

I've got no idea, I'm not the one proposing to tighten up the licencing. Theres some information in the links that were shared though.

I do also remember reading about the RFD who was making ammo up for criminals on the side, cant recall his name but I do remember it in the press.

 

[muddy42]

I don't see what the issue is here? If you have a FAC and can show good reason for needing it go bang (like stalking) then you'll get it. If you don't have good reason then get it deactivated and keep polishing it.

If you have a problem with this, you'll have a problem with the whole basis of UK firearms licensing and should move to the US.

 

[Liveonce]

I do also remember reading about the RFD who was making ammo up for criminals on the side, cant recall his name but I do remember it in the press.

Clearly the punishment for doing so and for criminal use of a firearm are no longer a deterrent, so we just continue to keep banning more and more firearms.

 

[Dalua]

Clearly the punishment for doing so and for criminal use of a firearm are no longer a deterrent, so we just continue to keep banning more and more firearms.

Quite.
As long as they leave the ones I use alone, of course: just ban the ones that other people use, and we'll all be fine!
Well, nearly all....

 

[stubear]

Clearly the punishment for doing so and for criminal use of a firearm are no longer a deterrent, so we just continue to keep banning more and more firearms.

But this isnt a ban?

If it was a ban I'd be right there agreeing with you - it would absolutely be the wrong response. But this isnt that. They're not banning them, they're just saying if you have one now then please get an FAC which we will grant you without asking all the usual awkward questions that get asked.

 

[Mike L]

I've got no idea, I'm not the one proposing to tighten up the licencing. Theres some information in the links that were shared though.

I do also remember reading about the RFD who was making ammo up for criminals on the side, cant recall his name but I do remember it in the press.

Paul Edmunds