Lead free - Legal?

[Jax]

Reading the recent threads on match bullets for deer and non lead alternatives got me thinking...

U.K. law prohibits the use of “Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.”

It would seem quite a few lead free bullets (and others) could be deemed illegal as they aren’t soft nose and the “hollow point” is no longer hollow as it filled with a metal or plastic.

if organisations are pushing lead free, do they not need to push for an update to the deer act first?

 

[Uncle f]

I know Barnes ttsx would be considered hollow point/nosed and certainly the original tsx would be

regards Steve

 

[splash]

Plastic inserts on non lead bullets are to protect the projectile and aid expansion to said projectile so are classed as hollow point

 

[User00014]

Reading the recent threads on match bullets for deer and non lead alternatives got me thinking...

U.K. law prohibits the use of “Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.”

It would seem quite a few lead free bullets (and others) could be deemed illegal as they aren’t soft nose and the “hollow point” is no longer hollow as it filled with a metal or plastic.

if organisations are pushing lead free, do they not need to push for an update to the deer act first?

Your thinking too much!

 

[Jax]

Your thinking too much!

Definitely. Trying to raise a valid point though. Legislation seems very outdated. Does it leave U.K. deer stalkers at risk of breaking the law by using any tipped bullet or monolithic bullet with a plastic or metal tip?

the lead free ammo or bullets that seem to be promoted of late seem to fall short of U.K. legislation.

Plastic inserts on non lead bullets are to protect the projectile and aid expansion to said projectile so are classed as hollow point

That’s my view to some degree, but who decides that or where does U.K. legislation allow for a hollow point that is no longer hollow?

could it be argued that plastic is a soft point? Does it rule out metal tipped bullets?

 

[nun_hunter]

Well plastic is soft (compared to copper) so anything with a plastic tip would be fine.

I can't think of any bullets (copper or otherwise) that are designed for hunting that have the tip made of a material harder than the jacket or body of the bullet??

 

[Alistair]

Well plastic is soft (compared to copper) so anything with a plastic tip would be fine.

I can't think of any bullets (copper or otherwise) that are designed for hunting that have the tip made of a material harder than the jacket or body of the bullet??

Old Winchester Silvertips? They were Aluminium tips I believe, so defo harder than lead. Probably of a similar vintage to the UK deer acts too.

 

[nun_hunter]

Old Winchester Silvertips? They were Aluminium tips I believe, so defo harder than lead. Probably of a similar vintage to the UK deer acts too.

If the nose is softer than the body/jacket then it could be called soft nosed. I'm not a metallurgist but I think Aluminium is generally softer than copper.

 

[Alistair]

If the nose is softer than the body/jacket then it could be called soft nosed. I'm not a metallurgist but I think Aluminium is generally softer than copper.

Fair point. I was thinking that the 'body' was the lead portion, but of course that's incorrect. As to if Aluminium is softer than copper, generally yes, but I guess it depends on the purity of both. The Mohs scale puts copper at 3, aluminium at 2.5-3, so ...

 

[mealiejimmy]

In Scotland the wording for a deer legal bullet is "a bullet of an expanding type designed to deform in a predictable manner"
No mention of soft nose or hollow nose

Cheers

Bruce

 

[rem284]

The question is, how much deformation and expanding in a predictable manner is good enough to ensure a good clean kill. Who, apart from the company selling their product and the guy shooting deer is determining that it is design to do that job well

 

[Jax]

Well plastic is soft (compared to copper) so anything with a plastic tip would be fine.

I can't think of any bullets (copper or otherwise) that are designed for hunting that have the tip made of a material harder than the jacket or body of the bullet??

Peregrine have a brass tip. These are top of my list to experiment with in an effort to explore going lead and plastic free, but perhaps I shouldn’t...

 

[Jax]

Is the plastic used for plastic tipped bullets softer than lead? I’ve come across intact tips in the past when gralloching.

I don’t have any lead to hand, but I imagine plastic could scratch it

 

[Edinburgh Rifles]

Reading the recent threads on match bullets for deer and non lead alternatives got me thinking...

U.K. law prohibits the use of “Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.”

It would seem quite a few lead free bullets (and others) could be deemed illegal as they aren’t soft nose and the “hollow point” is no longer hollow as it filled with a metal or plastic.

if organisations are pushing lead free, do they not need to push for an update to the deer act first?

If by adding a Ballistic tip it was not considered hollow point any more, then no bullet would be considered legal
The hollow point is a design feature to create a void, regardless of what is then put in it to increase BC

cant think of a single brand of non lead game bullets that are NOT hollow point and designed to expand

 

[monarman]

Certain bullets with the word match in their title are also hollow point and designed to expand..... or have a plastic tip and hollow cavity beneath it which also instigates expansion....... the word match generally indicates its more uniform jacket and /or better ballistic coefficient and/or sometimes thinner jacket that generally allows faster expansion than some bullets with the word hunting in the title......
Fmj match bullets on the other hand are clearly not designed to expand at all..... and they were in far more use when the deer acts came out than most of the modern bullets with match in the title.....
So..... does a hollow point match titled bullet not fit the bill for hollow point?.... because it has the word match in the tile.... what happens when the same bullet is called a hollow point match hunting?....
Or on the other hand..... a soft nosed bullet called a match expanding...????....

Its all a bit of a farce to a degree.... same as the varmi t bullet designation..... after all.... a 110 grain 270 v max is a heavier bullet than and 80 grain soft poi t in 243.... yet people wet their pants if you tell them you're shooting deer with a v max bullet ....

Its a funny old world.... .

 

[Selous]

Reading the recent threads on match bullets for deer and non lead alternatives got me thinking...

U.K. law prohibits the use of “Any bullet for use in a rifle other than a soft-nosed or hollow-nosed bullet.”

It would seem quite a few lead free bullets (and others) could be deemed illegal as they aren’t soft nose and the “hollow point” is no longer hollow as it filled with a metal or plastic.

if organisations are pushing lead free, do they not need to push for an update to the deer act first?

Putting a screw cap on an empty bottle does not stop it from being hollow!
I see what you mean to be honest and the wording of the act is a bit outdated. On the other hand everyone knows what is intended to be conveyed by the deer act so changing it probably is quite low priority given the other things that are happening.

 

[JabaliHunter]

The last thing we need is for politicians to start thinking... especially about bullets or firearms, just because the wording seems a bit outdated.

 

[paul o']