Threat to Scottish Syndicates.

New Avon Arms
camodog

camodog

Well-Known Member
Supporter
I am a member of a syndicate (8 guns) in SW Scotland. Two guns stalked regularly (until CV 19), myself weekly, the other fortnightly. As a result we were always on top of our cull requirements and there had been no issues with tree damage for the past 12 years. Since first lock-down I have had only two visits, once to effect repairs to a vandalised caravan. The other regularly stalker also has been only twice.
On this ground in the past 18 months there has been a much felling and re-planting. Naturally this is now extremely vulnerable to deer, mostly roe.
My concern being culling contractors being brought in, poaching because locally it will be known there are no stalkers visiting, vandalism to accommodation/high-seats etc. Also, thinking longer term, does anyone think there could be an existential threat to syndicates North of the border brought about by the continuing drive for independence by Ms Sturgeon ?
I realise in light of the 'bigger picture', stalking is relatively insignificant (albeit necessary), nevertheless to us it is an important part of our lives, and in many cases livelihoods.
Just interested in others thoughts on these issues.

Kind Regards,
'Camodog'.
 
I don't have any answers to your questions but I certainly don't think hunting is insignificant. It is something you do that is both necessary and useful, not just for the ground you cover but also for your own well being.

During the first lockdown, I didn't feel so much loss of my freedom as I did this second time round, despite the most recent lockdown only being a month as opposed to however long the first one was. Now that I am able to play golf again and feel freedom and being outside more, I feel so much better. Literally in just a handful of days I feel more energised and enthusiastic. Basic chores around the house are more readily accepted and I feel more useful generally.

I know the government is damned if they do and damned if they don't but I am glad we are getting closer to the end of this saga. The damage it has done to people is so profound.

Hopefully you can get back on it soon, get the numbers back down and enjoy your life once more.
 
camodog said:
I am a member of a syndicate (8 guns) in SW Scotland. Two guns stalked regularly (until CV 19), myself weekly, the other fortnightly. As a result we were always on top of our cull requirements and there had been no issues with tree damage for the past 12 years. Since first lock-down I have had only two visits, once to effect repairs to a vandalised caravan. The other regularly stalker also has been only twice.
On this ground in the past 18 months there has been a much felling and re-planting. Naturally this is now extremely vulnerable to deer, mostly roe.
My concern being culling contractors being brought in, poaching because locally it will be known there are no stalkers visiting, vandalism to accommodation/high-seats etc. Also, thinking longer term, does anyone think there could be an existential threat to syndicates North of the border brought about by the continuing drive for independence by Ms Sturgeon ?
I realise in light of the 'bigger picture', stalking is relatively insignificant (albeit necessary), nevertheless to us it is an important part of our lives, and in many cases livelihoods.
Just interested in others thoughts on these issues.

Kind Regards,
'Camodog'.
Click to expand...
Don't have the answers to a couple of your questions ,

But I know for sure , that our syndicate grounds are being used for a free for all by the locals ,

Our grounds are in the middle of nowhere , and every man and his dog knows us regulars can't get in there to to what's required,

It's really getting on my t1ts ,

It's happening boys, it really happening ,

Kjf
 
If you are worried about unauthorised access, trail cameras are your most discreet and cost effective solution.

4G ones that alert you or send pics/videos to a central hub to be checked later are available but costly.

So long as you are fulfilling the criteria of your lease, then you are in the clear.

Ultimately it is a balance between how much damage the foresters are willing to accept in relation to income from a sporting lease, but they can still charge top dollar for ground with little deer presence/activity, as someone be willing to pay for the sake of having it.
 
topscots1 said:
I wouldn’t be concerned overly. Depending on where your ground is maybe ask someone local to go have a look at it for you. If you have local members all the better. I’m lucky I can still get to my ground when time allows.
Click to expand...
Wise words topscot1.
It's a prudent measure to have local members involved with a syndicate, such that they can keep an eye on the ground.
 
Interesting to note that where sitka spruce is the main timber crop, vanishingly little to no evidence of browsing damage has ever been quantified. The deer would prefer to starve rather than eat them, and did so in large numbers in the winter of 2010/11. Native deer not naturally given to nibbling/nobbling non-native trees🤔

Try finding any papers or evidence of this - good hunting🤔
 
I'd be surprised if there really is as much poaching going on as u think, althou will depend where abouts ur ground is.
No doubt still some areas of bandit country around
But with price of venision as low as it is not that much incentive money wise.

FF I'd say there is plenty of evidence out there of roe damaging tree crops, even horrible SS.
In many upland areas not a lot of food about at this time off year.
Do u really think forestry companies would bother employing stalkers or contractors if it wasn't absolutely neccesary.
I dare say on lower more fertile areas the risk of damage will be smaller as more other grub about.
 
To be blunt, guessing what Sturgeon and her party will enact, especially if she gets a good majority at the next election is anyone's guess as far as land management and field sports of all persuasions is concerned. Probably from that viewpoint, independence might just be no bad thing. She then might realise, once the purse strings are cut that having a vibrant and successful sporting countryside bringing in revenue to the country and employing people is a good thing.

Or not.
 
sikasako said:
Wise words topscot1.
It's a prudent measure to have local members involved with a syndicate, such that they can keep an eye on the ground.
Click to expand...
One of our boundaries runs up to a mixed hardwood of around 150 acres. The syndicate of stalkers all live about 40 miles away. In return for dogging in I keep an eye on it for them. The local herberts know I'm in there and tend to give it a miss. Ditto dog walkers.
Works for both of us.
 
Just have such a high level of control that it makes it very difficult for anyone else to get deer.

Deer control is a constant thing. Unless syndicate members are local it usually becomes more difficult over time for control to be achieved. A syndicate had a forest near me. Most of them lived a few hundred miles away. One of them could shoot very well and was good at getting deer when on the ground, I am not sure about the other guys. However when things change and I was asked to do it I got 400% of the cull in the 1st year. The benefit I have is I am local and react quickly to make the most of weather and deer movement.

So, it is difficult to get a high level of control and limit damage levels at the best of times when the area is not local, covid has obviously added to this difficulty
 
countrryboy said:
I'd be surprised if there really is as much poaching going on as u think, althou will depend where abouts ur ground is.
No doubt still some areas of bandit country around
But with price of venision as low as it is not that much incentive money wise.

FF I'd say there is plenty of evidence out there of roe damaging tree crops, even horrible SS.
In many upland areas not a lot of food about at this time off year.
Do u really think forestry companies would bother employing stalkers or contractors if it wasn't absolutely neccesary.
I dare say on lower more fertile areas the risk of damage will be smaller as more other grub about.
Click to expand...
Cheers CB, the issue of damage of ss has to the best of my knowledge not been demonstrated, as formerly culling in the NFE I tracked a couple roe I'd culled back through a plantation where only the tips of ss were in view, in February, i.e. Two months into the freeze, not a single tree tip had been taken, but where there was the slightest view of frosted heather they had stopped and picked about, even at the base of young ss.

The employment/deployment of contractors does not prove anything concerning the actual eating habits of deer, more the acknowledgement that their numbers increase rapidly if not checked, which is a fact.

The test would be to shoot half of a 'decent' sized block, and leave the other, then after a couple of years quantify the actual damage found; that would demonstrate how much/little damage to ss they actually cause. In 35 plus years of doing the job over various plantations up here, I've yet to see it, and have never heard of it where serious browsing damage can be demonstrated on the ground to be seen.
 
Good find Ben,

A quick skim highlights 2 things.
1. Deer don't like Situations.
2. Deer density at 9-10 per km2 were almost double FLS's target of 5
 
The SNP seem to be a risk to anything north of the border, the sooner people up here realise it, the better! They are most certainly an anti-gun/shooting party. Try mailing one of their MSP’s and ask him/her their opinion on guns and shooting!

regards,
Gixer
 
rem284 said:
Just have such a high level of control that it makes it very difficult for anyone else to get deer.

Deer control is a constant thing. Unless syndicate members are local it usually becomes more difficult over time for control to be achieved. A syndicate had a forest near me. Most of them lived a few hundred miles away. One of them could shoot very well and was good at getting deer when on the ground, I am not sure about the other guys. However when things change and I was asked to do it I got 400% of the cull in the 1st year. The benefit I have is I am local and react quickly to make the most of weather and deer movement.

So, it is difficult to get a high level of control and limit damage levels at the best of times when the area is not local, covid has obviously added to this difficulty
Click to expand...
100% I think it’s always best practice to have someone local on a syndicate for unforeseen issues and to lessen the likelihood of poaching, damage to equipment etc.

The biggest problem with deer control and syndicates is always jealousy (if people are honest), and/or not fully appreciating land owners priorities by which I mean 6-8 lads 300+ miles away who come up 3-4 times a year each often don’t want a member 10- 20 miles away going once or twice weekly and getting more shooting.

Unfortunately this is the most practical way to reduce deer pressure but in turn also reduces the syndicates sporting numbers, which is desirable if your a forest manager.

It’s not something peculiar to this country, my German friend has the same issues and it boils down to foresters don’t want deer eating or damaging their crop and it’s not different to a pheasant keeper doing vermin control.
 
Freeforester said:
Interesting to note that where sitka spruce is the main timber crop, vanishingly little to no evidence of browsing damage has ever been quantified. The deer would prefer to starve rather than eat them, and did so in large numbers in the winter of 2010/11. Native deer not naturally given to nibbling/nobbling non-native trees🤔

Try finding any papers or evidence of this - good hunting🤔
Click to expand...

Deer will murder Doulas fir, it's like a finest wine or whisky for them. Seen non native pines get nobbled too.

They will also eat Sitka if hungry enough. A Coillte friend told me they are having problems in Ireland with deer populations so high that in some areas they are browsing SS. Now if my word isn't good enough for you and that isn't evidence enough, pay my ferry ticket and I will bring back photos ;).

Anyway, we need non native trees and more of them. Otherwise you'd have nothing to wipe your sweet backside with, print your daily rag and books on, or build our houses out of.
 
Rake Aboot said:
Been turned down for a few syndicates for being "too local"

Reap what you sow when you need feet on the ground I suppose.
Click to expand...

Ah ! Like being stuck between
a rock & a hard place. The old green eyed monster rears it’s head...
the bloke miles away can’t...
& the bloke on the door
step ends with all the
stalking !

Buck.
 
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