Griggo06
Well-Known Member
This is the kind of thing I was after thank you for being so thorough in your reply.
Interested to see if people actually follow this.
I think it's a good idea and it's always better to err on the safe side of caution.
Wanted: Deer carcass
- Thread starter Griggo06
- Start date
Interested to see if people actually follow this.
I think it's a good idea and it's always better to err on the safe side of caution.
Griggo06
Well-Known Member
That's always good to hear. I need to do a basic food business course just to be safe and understand everything.
Registering as a food business will allow a stalker with trained hunter status to supply carcasses in skin directly from the field to an AGHE.
Once someone starts putting deer into their own chiller, and processing it in any way (even if just skinning) for onward sale then they will need to register their premises, and have them inspected, which is quite a big step up from simply registering as a food business for the purposes of supply to an AGHE.
You need to be a registered good business even if you supply in the skin, changed last year, search the forum and you’ll find threads on it
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Are you planning on selling the meat or is it for your own personal consumption?
And it looks like it’s about to get more difficult, just as I was about to incorporate a larder a new outbuilding and register
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
So much for BREXIT freeing up small food producing businesses and reducing red tape.
Have a watch of this. Food Standard Agency looking at tightening up use of and provinding game meat other than via large game dealers
www.thestalkingdirectory.co.uk
springbok787
Well-Known Member
I am I just forgot to write that bit into my response.
Fair one, the last sentence seemed to imply that sales in the skin didn’t have the requirement to register
springbok787
Well-Known Member
Poor use of verbage by me
It's all explained in the Food Standards Agency Wild game Guide.
Start here: Wild game guidance
NB, the guide is intended to be updated soon, the consultations (different for England/Wales/NI, compared with Scotland, closed a little while ago. The stated intent being to further clarify matters but not introduce anything new.
What is crystal clear is that to sell venison, in any form, to anybody, requires registration as a food business and appropriate record keeping. Could be as simple as registering your vehicle to transport to an AGHE, or as complicated as building your own larder and processing facilities and gaining additional qualifications in how to operate safely.
It used to be that you could sell in-the-fur, to your local pub, restaurant or butchers shop, or private individual, without registration (but still required to be a "trained hunter" i.e. large game handling certificate which you get with DSC1. With no practical training, just a lecture, quite likely never seen the inside of a deer never mind been up to the elbows in it.) Using the "hunters' exemption".
Some I have heard, would sell in the fur, receive cheque or cash (furry animal now property of new owner) then skin and chop it up for them as an additional service, as a part time (zero hours) employee, or just cash in hand. Seemingly unregulated. Are there any formal qualifications or certification required to call yourself a chef, and serve self-butchered grub to the public ?
It took me about six deer with my mentor before I was pretty confident that I knew enough about what I was doing, in various circumstances (lying on the ground, fully suspended everything out, green gralloch only, minimal incisions, the rest done in the larder,) etc. etc. Though never found anything untoward, I think I might spot some things, carry the little BDS photo book, and of course we have the SD collective of true experts, practical or vet trained or both, to advise, given a photo or precise description.
Conversely I've seen a couple of very bad grallochs done by supposedly qualified persons, one with huge number of deer under his belt. Seems that was the way he always did them and maybe still does.
A small point, for Griggo06, I think that you mentioned wanting the offal too, liver, kidneys, heart etc. Maybe add tongue, lights and blood to that list for some interesting recipes.
I think (don't know precisely), that offal is a trickier thing to sell legally compared with solid meat, higher standards apply, delicious though it can be.
Start here: Wild game guidance
NB, the guide is intended to be updated soon, the consultations (different for England/Wales/NI, compared with Scotland, closed a little while ago. The stated intent being to further clarify matters but not introduce anything new.
What is crystal clear is that to sell venison, in any form, to anybody, requires registration as a food business and appropriate record keeping. Could be as simple as registering your vehicle to transport to an AGHE, or as complicated as building your own larder and processing facilities and gaining additional qualifications in how to operate safely.
It used to be that you could sell in-the-fur, to your local pub, restaurant or butchers shop, or private individual, without registration (but still required to be a "trained hunter" i.e. large game handling certificate which you get with DSC1. With no practical training, just a lecture, quite likely never seen the inside of a deer never mind been up to the elbows in it.) Using the "hunters' exemption".
Some I have heard, would sell in the fur, receive cheque or cash (furry animal now property of new owner) then skin and chop it up for them as an additional service, as a part time (zero hours) employee, or just cash in hand. Seemingly unregulated. Are there any formal qualifications or certification required to call yourself a chef, and serve self-butchered grub to the public ?
It took me about six deer with my mentor before I was pretty confident that I knew enough about what I was doing, in various circumstances (lying on the ground, fully suspended everything out, green gralloch only, minimal incisions, the rest done in the larder,) etc. etc. Though never found anything untoward, I think I might spot some things, carry the little BDS photo book, and of course we have the SD collective of true experts, practical or vet trained or both, to advise, given a photo or precise description.
Conversely I've seen a couple of very bad grallochs done by supposedly qualified persons, one with huge number of deer under his belt. Seems that was the way he always did them and maybe still does.
A small point, for Griggo06, I think that you mentioned wanting the offal too, liver, kidneys, heart etc. Maybe add tongue, lights and blood to that list for some interesting recipes.
I think (don't know precisely), that offal is a trickier thing to sell legally compared with solid meat, higher standards apply, delicious though it can be.
Griggo06
Well-Known Member
Personal at the moment.
Griggo06
Well-Known Member
Cheers for the solid reply, glad I started this thread not only has it been useful to see what is about but also regarding food safety and standards
If you want to purchase a whole carcass to develop your own butchery skills, then you may do so from an individual stalker, or an estate, provided that it is supplied with a tag, correctly completed by a trained person, is a primary product i.e. complete and "in the fur", and that the seller is registered as a food business.
This is a quite common state of affairs, basically any stalker who ever sells their venison must meet both these criteria, and be able to show you their certificates if you ask.
Once you have purchased it "in the fur", then the seller might be prepared to demonstrate to you how to skin it, a useful skill to learn.
Or if their food business registration includes processing the primary product further, for sale direct to local consumers or retailers, then of course they could skin it for you, and break it down into more manageable pieces, e.g. quarters.
Of course you must then either consume it yourself, or give it away free to family and friends. No e.g. bartering it for goods or services.
Further point:
"Game dealer prices" are normally for the primary product. That's how they take them. Head and feet off, innards out, otherwise as-is, in the fur.
They then have to either process them themselves, or sell them on as-is. For a profit.
If they process them either themselves or someone else does, then there is a lot of waste to be disposed of at commercial rates, skin, bones, the rest. Premises to maintain, employees to be paid, electricity (larders, chillers and freezers use a lot), water, packaging, consumables, IT, book keeping, transport arrangements, chiller vehicles, wastage (and commercial disposal), uncertainty of post-Brexit market (we Brits don't actually buy very much ourselves, just as most don't really like fish, unless it is cod or haddock in batter, or made into fingers.)
TBH, trying to get the UK public to buy, learn to cook, and enjoy venison is as difficult if not more so than persuading them to do do the same with our wonderful fish, crustaceans and molluscs.
Setting out your stall regularly at farmers' markets or trying to build up online or local sales by appointment, whilst building a reputation.
So do not equate the sort of "game dealer prices" bandied about on here with the true value of the meat. There is a lot of costly stuff that happens before it can end up on retail sale, nicely presented, with all the boxes ticked.
Just as there is when doing it yourself. The best I ever managed was an 80kg fallow delivered 50 kg usable meat, a lot of it mince, after several hours of cutting off every tiniest scrap. A fat one in early Autumn, with almost inches of heavy unusable fat beneath the skin (it is unusable for anything, but still has to be disposed of) would yield far less.
Which is why I and others think that the small-scale future is to set up to do all this yourself, abiding by the regulations which do not seem to me to be particularly onerous. A considerable capital investment to set up, but do not under-price quality meat. Those who understand and appreciate decent joints and cuts will be quite prepared to pay the proper price. Maybe not every week, or even month, but will like to know that you are still in business and keep you in business. Meanwhile sell delicious burgers and sausages made from the rest.
But do not dream of feeding yourself on prime venison for (ISTR) your idea of £2/kilo, however you do it. Unless you have your own deer for free, spend nothing on anything else (rifle, cartridges, diesel, transport, premises, insurances, utility services, maintenance, depreciation, etc. ) and place no value on your time and energy.
Wild venison will never and should never become a cheap commodity like our beef, pork, chicken, and, to an extent, lamb/mutton.
"Game dealer prices" are normally for the primary product. That's how they take them. Head and feet off, innards out, otherwise as-is, in the fur.
They then have to either process them themselves, or sell them on as-is. For a profit.
If they process them either themselves or someone else does, then there is a lot of waste to be disposed of at commercial rates, skin, bones, the rest. Premises to maintain, employees to be paid, electricity (larders, chillers and freezers use a lot), water, packaging, consumables, IT, book keeping, transport arrangements, chiller vehicles, wastage (and commercial disposal), uncertainty of post-Brexit market (we Brits don't actually buy very much ourselves, just as most don't really like fish, unless it is cod or haddock in batter, or made into fingers.)
TBH, trying to get the UK public to buy, learn to cook, and enjoy venison is as difficult if not more so than persuading them to do do the same with our wonderful fish, crustaceans and molluscs.
Setting out your stall regularly at farmers' markets or trying to build up online or local sales by appointment, whilst building a reputation.
So do not equate the sort of "game dealer prices" bandied about on here with the true value of the meat. There is a lot of costly stuff that happens before it can end up on retail sale, nicely presented, with all the boxes ticked.
Just as there is when doing it yourself. The best I ever managed was an 80kg fallow delivered 50 kg usable meat, a lot of it mince, after several hours of cutting off every tiniest scrap. A fat one in early Autumn, with almost inches of heavy unusable fat beneath the skin (it is unusable for anything, but still has to be disposed of) would yield far less.
Which is why I and others think that the small-scale future is to set up to do all this yourself, abiding by the regulations which do not seem to me to be particularly onerous. A considerable capital investment to set up, but do not under-price quality meat. Those who understand and appreciate decent joints and cuts will be quite prepared to pay the proper price. Maybe not every week, or even month, but will like to know that you are still in business and keep you in business. Meanwhile sell delicious burgers and sausages made from the rest.
But do not dream of feeding yourself on prime venison for (ISTR) your idea of £2/kilo, however you do it. Unless you have your own deer for free, spend nothing on anything else (rifle, cartridges, diesel, transport, premises, insurances, utility services, maintenance, depreciation, etc. ) and place no value on your time and energy.
Wild venison will never and should never become a cheap commodity like our beef, pork, chicken, and, to an extent, lamb/mutton.
Griggo06
Well-Known Member
I don't plan on it to be a cheaper cut of meat.
I plan on knowing exactly where my food has come from and to be able to provide wholesome British wild venison to my family and friends the time taken to butcher, clean mince and prepare joints and various other meat made items is time consuming. You are also right to see that the cost of running a small business is expensive.
I have the option to set up something like that a small whole animal butchery/ farm shop that would allow me to turn venison and other animals into high quality produce, sold at the right price. What I don't like seeing is small farm shops and butchers selling at astronomical prices because they can. I have walked out of a few places after not purchasing a thing because they are charging far too much for their produce. There is some really interesting articles of regenerative farming.
I only asked for game dealers prices because I know how much work goes into producing the cuts of meat so don't want to be over paying, however I'll pay for high quality.
You are correct in saying that the majority of the British public don't like the idea of game meat and or different looking fish and shellfish which is a true shame. I for one love Pollack and coley fish and all the other wonderful species you might see.
I appreciate fine food.
Anyways they my 2pence on the topic.
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I'd rather see this ^^^^ than see supermarkets selling too cheaply and undercutting all the small-scale artisan producers. A small-scale producer has proportionately higher overhead costs per unit sold. Supermarkets can afford to stack 'em high and sell 'em cheap, but should they?
(btw, the most expensive cut of venison that I sell is £42.50 per kg. One customer told me that they thought that a bit pricey, but purchased anyway. Now, having eaten it and liked it, they want more of the same. The trouble is I've sold out for the time being!)
(Incidentally, the average price across a whole carcass works out at about £18 per kg of useable meat. So a deer with a larder weight of 32 kg might yield 20kg of meat and therefore be worth iro £360)
dazbeaver
Member
Have you a contact for fallow staking please? Ta
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