Do we really believe this?

[T-D Deer Management]

Whilst I do believe that poaching in my area is a massive problem and that the odd fallow may accidentally pick-up a snare, I dont believe that the loss of back legs is due to poaching through dogs or illegal trapping.

This isnt a heavily keepered area so cant see this amount of deer being caught by wires.. surely this is prodominently fence damage.

Thoughts?

 

[Jelen]

It could also be caused during silage or hay cutting. I had a Roe doe whose hind legs were missing from the 'knee' down.

 

[deerstalker.308]

Classic fence injury that! See hind legs missing all to often especially in areas with lots of sheep fencing

 

[T-D Deer Management]

My thoughts precisely, lots of dodgy double standed barb wire in this area and Ive had plenty caught up in it

 

[Oldstalker]

Do you have double top wires on fences, above the stocknet, routinely in that area? If so then it is the fencing causing these injuries. On one estate I used to stalk adjacent to the A6 and largely on "moss" land near the Cumbrian / Lancastrian county ditch there was a lot of fencing erected by one contractor which had two plain wires on top above the stocknet. It was lethal routinely catching fallow who dropped a rear leg between the wires and twisted them tight as the deer's (usually rear) leg windlassed the 2 wires for the first half turn. Rarely could one extract a deer alive - a few fawns over a lot of years. It took a recognisable proportion of the cull annually - 2 or 3% of their mortality on its own and produced a number of lower rear leg limbed deer. Having once lost a part of a limb though I found that 3 legged deer were almost invariably fatter than their fellows by sex and age at the same time of year; presumably from moving around less. This applied to the other species (red and roe) in that area also.
So to answer your original question - the answer is "B******ks do I believe it" any more than I suspect you do. Poachers are like the poor; they are always with us, but this is as you suspected the fencing which is to blame.

 

[Namman]

Whilst I do believe that poaching in my area is a massive problem and that the odd fallow may accidentally pick-up a snare, I dont believe that the loss of back legs is due to poaching through dogs or illegal trapping.

This isnt a heavily keepered area so cant see this amount of deer being caught by wires.. surely this is prodominently fence damage.

Thoughts?

Most probably had been caught on a cattle fence. If the leg comes off quickly the deer will survive otherwise they die on the fence. I used to release them by cutting the wire, but found that they all died due to the stress involved in being released. It is the double top wire that causes it. They are so tightly trapped as the wire twists around the lower leg that you cannot unravel them. Now I just shoot them.

 

[T-D Deer Management]

Oldstalker, the fencing is as such and I have had to remove/dispatch numerous fallow caught up in them

 

[highseat6.5]

I can’t count the number of deer I’ve taken off fences ( dispatched not released) in East Sussex , double strand barbed wire above stock fencing ought to be called deer trap fencing .We shoot three or four every year without fail on one of my estates that have a lot of that type of fencing close by ..on well used paths we have installed deer crossing points to limit the damage ..

 

[T-D Deer Management]

Do you have double top wires on fences, above the stocknet, routinely in that area? If so then it is the fencing causing these injuries. On one estate I used to stalk adjacent to the A6 and largely on "moss" land near the Cumbrian / Lancastrian county ditch there was a lot of fencing erected by one contractor which had two plain wires on top above the stocknet. It was lethal routinely catching fallow who dropped a rear leg between the wires and twisted them tight as the deer's (usually rear) leg windlassed the 2 wires for the first half turn. Rarely could one extract a deer alive - a few fawns over a lot of years. It took a recognisable proportion of the cull annually - 2 or 3% of their mortality on its own and produced a number of lower rear leg limbed deer. Having once lost a part of a limb though I found that 3 legged deer were almost invariably fatter than their fellows by sex and age at the same time of year; presumably from moving around less. This applied to the other species (red and roe) in that area also.
So to answer your original question - the answer is "B******ks do I believe it" any more than I suspect you do. Poachers are like the poor; they are always with us, but this is as you suspected the fencing which is to blame.

Goes to show what we are dealing with if people honestly cant come to a sensible reason for the deer injuries.

As much as I despise poaching, it goes to show how a simple fence injury can be used to create such wild accusations of deer trapping and animal abuse

 

[riflerob]

We had what would have been a very high quality medal fallow buck that got caught up on sheep fencing, back in November / early December.
Sadly, with the shoot being dormant, nobody found it for some time, and it had died in situ, undoubtedly suffering greatly

This was within 8 miles from Abergele as the crow flies.

We've had members who have suspected poaching (either people coming in, locals, etc) on a number of occasions. Trail cameras that I've put out (and not told anyone else the location of) have never produced any images of people that shouldn't be there, or doing anything that they shouldn't be doing

 

[pendle]

Like Tom -Keeper says there are a fair few fallow missing limbs due to stock fencing in are area I have shot quite a few .
Poaching in the area is rife at the moment
Re night shooting with thermal also dog lads. Some of the local landowners have found heads and feet . They have notified the wildlife and rural crime section of north Wales police. They say they know who they are but need resources to catch then . Covid has hit police resources as well

 

[jb7x57]

Got called out last year sorry 2019 someone had found a fallow calf with back leg damaged caught in fence
We bandaged it up and looked after it eventually after about 6 weeks it lost the bottom 3 inch of its leg just dropped off at the joint he got no infection and now just lives with the sheep and goats always seems happy and it doesn’t seem to bother him

 

[John Gryphon]

Don`t you just love the Rutting activity line in the middle pic ....ffs you cannot eat a rutting Fallow buck......period!

I remember the histeria when 20 skinned fox carcase`s were found dumped in the Vic bush going back 35 years at the height of the fur industry and the print media had the story that they were skinned GREYHOUNDS that had outlived their usefulness.
As if anyone is going to skin a ****ing greyhound!

 

[pendle]

With the Demise of the D.I the game conservancy council have taken up the roll in the Elwy valley.
We still have working cameras up in the wood
Collecting data for a on going project

 

[Gamekeeperwill]

Barbed wire

 

[Rhodesianjess]

As above, double wire on top of stock netting ought to be rethought. Had a spaniel caught once like that, can still remember the noise she made till I got to her and lifted her off.

 

[ndt man]

Stock fence with top wires it's lethal as old keeper has said . I have found a few over the years found with a leg caught up.

 

[landkeeper]

I see more and more new fencing being erected now with whst looks like a 6 in strip of black plastic material covering the top wire it looks like damp proof membrane
Anyone else seen this

 

[CarlW]

As above, double wire on top of stock netting ought to be rethought. Had a spaniel caught once like that, can still remember the noise she made till I got to her and lifted her off.

Agreed. Can just run one barbed at the bottom, followed by the netting, with the second strand of barbed on top. Keeps the same height, reduces trapping propensity (although doesn't eliminate it), and discourages stock trying to go under.

 

[Gamekeeperwill]

Or use 1 top strand of electric wire on insulators