Re-barreling UK

[Sonicdmb73]

Not true.

Back when BSA made rifles, dealers (most likely with an attached gunsmith) were able to order parts (like barrels) from the factory in case a replacement was required.

The ability to replace parts on your rifle in case of damage, wear or faults used to be something that was factored into production and supply of said equipment (product support). I know a former BSA dealer and he said that re-barrelling was never an issue, so long as you had a factory barrel on hand, as the cost to supply was not high in comparison to today's prices (then again, quality and consistency may have improved greatly).

If you ring up the dealer from whom you bought the now out of production Sako many moons ago and say: 'I've dropped my rifle and the hinged floorplate has been crushed, got a spare?' the likelihood of being told that they do indeed have a suitable replacement (in the UK at least) is pretty low. You would be better off asking an independent gunsmith who might have a few lying about after their clients have requested magazine conversions.



Trade secret there mate

Why do you think the Master Wardens and Society of the Mystery of Gunmakers of the City of London and the Guardians of the Birmingham Proof House (I am not making these names up, google it) are held in such high esteem? If you don't know the secret handshake and wear the funny hats, you are not allowed in!

They probably have my name written down on the naughty list now

I think you missed my point. The relative cost of a new rifle in 1973 through to 1986 when the CF2 was being made is far different to now. The average wage in 1972 was £36, 1979 £101, 1982 £154 and £585 in 2019.
My father told me that in the early 70’s he was getting around £20 a week.
Now I cannot find the new price of a CF2 but I will bet it was a couple of hundred pounds.
There’s plenty of rifles new that you can buy for less than two weeks worth of the average wage. In comparison you would be spending a few months wage in the 70’s.

So while you are correct that the BSA had spares including barrels easily available. They were not as cheap as the modern rifles.

Another thing is that you can buy spares for many modern rifles Sako extractors bolt etc. I have a Tikka barrel in one of my rifles that was a factory replacement for a 22-250. Not now as it was shortened and re-chambered, which made the job cheaper than a new blank. But it was still available as a factory replacement.

 

[Ronin]

I think it depends on what work is done. For screwing in and head spacing a prefit barrel I’d say it’s too much. If it includes truing the action, bluing the barrel (and so probably the action), installing sights and modifying the barrel channel it’d be very reasonable.
So what is the retail price of a lother Walter prefit in the UK?

That price was stated for a blank, profiled but un chambered barrel

Those who want to use pre fit barrels - go ahead

Obtain one and fit by yourself

Or set up as a gunsmith, pay for premises, insurance , equipment and make a living whilst discussing your time and prices with customers

No one is stopping you from doing this


A prefit barrel for a Sauer 200 series from Lothar in 6.5/55 is in the region of 600 gbp

Oh you’d also have to sort import licence now too

By all means again go ahead and get a pre fit for (whatever action) and fit it

 

[EMcC]

Quite a few people have mentioned the cost of setting up, tooling, premises, insurance etc and has been explained as why Smithing is not cheap but has that not been covered during years of operation ?

 

[hendrix's rifle]

@Ronin has described the process as I have seen it done by the smith I use.
However he missed off some of the process that takes time too. Many rifles turn up as they are usually taken out of the cabinet. So you have to strip off the stock, scope etc to get down to the actual action. That you then have to set up in the lathe.
Having a small lathe that I use for making bits and pieces on. I appreciate the time involved in trueing in a chuck, a four jaw is bad enough. And I am not going for the accuracy that they work to either.

Just consider that if you have a new (ish) car and go to the main dealer. You are likely going to pay around £100 an hour for the privilege. Quite often for work done by a “fitter”.
But don’t think paying someone who has quite probably done a five year apprenticeship as a tool maker. Along with the costs of machinery and tooling (which can be eye watering in itself) and the workshop with associated cost. A decent hourly rate is appropriate.

I think part of the problem is that rifles have come down in price so much that it gives an artificial idea of worth. The argument I can get a new “insert name” for that price.
Doesn’t really relate to the work and costs involved in fitting a new barrel.
The other thing is that quite a bit of the stuff is imported from the State’s, but it can’t always be sent back if faulty etc. If the smith makes a mistake it could mean a new blank is required. All of which needs to be taken into consideration. After all they are running a business, if you were asked to work for less would you be happy to?

The last paragraph, if I built an engine and didn't check tolerances and blew it, it wouldn't be the customer paying it, it would be myself.... if a smith ruins a barrel thats on his head and as such, the customer shouldn't pay that

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Quite a few people have mentioned the cost of setting up, tooling, premises, insurance etc and has been explained as why Smithing is not cheap but has that not been covered during years of operation ?

Some of it but like any other trade mine included. There’s ongoing costs, tooling wears out. I inquired about buying a reamer for a wildcat and the lifespan is only a few barrels. I have to replace and or repair many of the tools of my trade. Gun smithing is no different.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

The last paragraph, if I built an engine and didn't check tolerances and blew it, it wouldn't be the customer paying it, it would be myself.... if a smith ruins a barrel thats on his head and as such, the customer shouldn't pay that

Yes but you have to cover your backside and allow for it in your charges. It is the law of probability, sooner or later it will happen. You take the chance it will be one in X jobs and divide the cost between the other jobs.
You won’t stay in business long if you don’t have contingency built in.

 

[20-250]

Now I cannot find the new price of a CF2 but I will bet it was a couple of hundred pounds.

Can't tell you what they cost in the early 70's, but I can tell you that the last few CF2's sold as BSA folded, before all their tooling was sold and shipped to India, had a very plain stock fitted and were marketed as the CF2 'Classic'. I bought one, new, from Armstrong's in Nottingham around 1993- it was old stock then and cost me £330 if I remember correctly.

 

[20-250]

Quite a few people have mentioned the cost of setting up, tooling, premises, insurance etc and has been explained as why Smithing is not cheap but has that not been covered during years of operation ?

I'm just off down to Tesco to tell them their prices need to be slashed as they've been in business a while now...

 

[aris]

Accuracy international. have the QuickLoc system - i'm not sure how patent encumbered it is - but i'm sure other manufacturers will follow suit in the future. Barrel change in under a minute.

 

[Sonicdmb73]

Can't tell you what they cost in the early 70's, but I can tell you that the last few CF2's sold as BSA folded, before all their tooling was sold and shipped to India, had a very plain stock fitted and were marketed as the CF2 'Classic'. I bought one, new, from Armstrong's in Nottingham around 1993- it was old stock then and cost me £330 if I remember correctly.

So assuming it was one of the last ones made it was six years old and possibly marked down to sell.
I was earning probably less than half that a week in 93 so two weeks or more wage.
I bought mine secondhand (although barely used by the looks of it) for £150 iirc but an earlier example with a nice stock and sublime trigger, but I digress. My point is that the cost of a rifle compared to even the “average” wage which is something many never actually earn anyway. Has actually gone down over the years. Like many things they have become a disposable item, some are designed in such a way to be almost impossible to rebarrel.

 

[EMcC]

I'm just off down to Tesco to tell them their prices need to be slashed as they've been in business a while now...

They've beat you to it, they are already at prices that beat others and are now a national company although I'm not sure whether their carrot and cabbage making machines have paid for themselves just yet
I know my reloading kit has paid for itself many times over

 

[wildfowler.250]

Isn’t this like everything in life. You get what you pay for? Sometimes you’ll get a good price or even a bargain but generally speaking anyone with a decent skill shouldn’t be cheap

Taxidermy is a fine example of this. Some right belters on the cheap side of the market

 

[EMcC]

You only get what you pay for isn't always true to form.
I know a couple of engineers that can thread a barrel to the same spec and both ask for a lot less when compared to some of the Gun Smiths that do the same thing !!

 

[Sonicdmb73]

You only get what you pay for isn't always true to form.
I know a couple of engineers that can thread a barrel to the same spec and both ask for a lot less when compared to some of the Gun Smiths that do the same thing !!

Do you account for your time. While you stand around waiting for them to do it?
I have had barrels threaded by engineers friends in the past. But it can be half a day gone before it was finished.

 

[EMcC]

Do you account for your time. While you stand around waiting for them to do it?
I have had barrels threaded by engineers friends in the past. But it can be half a day gone before it was finished.

One particular Engineer has done, in the past, a few for me while I have been drinking a cup of coffee supplied by his good lady.
He gives me a time, I turn up, he does the job and by the time I've drank the coffee, job done.
That particular engineer used to be very active when pistols needed barrels but is no more dealing with firearms because of the hassle these days and most rifles are now supplied threaded due to the popularity of moderators.

 

[20-250]

Anyone else thinking there’s a few of our resident riflesmiths watching this thread with interest who are quietly making a list of people to not bother replying to when they receive ‘What’s your best price?’ queries from some of the contributors?

 

[DavyG]

You only get what you pay for isn't always true to form.
I know a couple of engineers that can thread a barrel to the same spec and both ask for a lot less when compared to some of the Gun Smiths that do the same thing !!

I can re-crown, re-fit, screw cut & shorten a barrel for £50 on my 1970’s myford. It’ll shoot like ****...but you get what you pay for.
DG

 

[User00040]

Hey all,

I've re-read my comments and must apologise.

The empty vessel makes the most noise! A phrase which rings true for most of my contributions!

Cheers.

 

[1894]

Someone got out of the wrong side of bed!!

There’s no need to be throwing the F word around, it doesn’t make you look big or clever

Someone got out of the wrong side of bed!!

There’s no need to be throwing the F word around, it doesn’t make you look big or clever

I notice you’re not addressing the multiple inaccuracies in your post that Griff pointed out?

 

[1894]

Lots of costs, risk etc in rebarreling and then there is the customer....
However costs seem like they have risen a lot. In 2006 I was being quoted £400 from reputable smiths for a LW. That’s £554 today taking account of inflation. However to that you need to add threading (not being asked for in 2006) and the change in VAT. Most smiths now seem to use ‘better’ barrels and seem to measure more/use better reamers. So I think we’re stuck in the past and need to suck it up.
I personally have had very good luck with Remington barrels and would love M700 prefits but Raytrade won’t and Brownells don’t guarantee profile and are too close to a custom barrel in cost