John Gryphon
Well-Known Member
I have had a few LW barrels fitted with out a drama ever. One I'd being done right now in fact. They are at true go to mob.
Re-barreling UK
- Thread starter Uncas
- Start date
Multiple inaccuracies!
I have made 2 statements -
1. The UK market is miniscule compared to the US - (insert ding for Quiz show correct answer)
2. I have corrected Griff saying that universal receivers do not exist by providing a link for one and telling him my RFD has one - (insert same ding)
(you can ignore the @Grandhubert posts as they are an in joke with a shooting buddy)
How do I address something that does not exist pray tell?
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Well I'll go to foot of our stairs, Universal Receivers do exist!
I am curious however do they have different ones for the likes of Blaser or lets say Sauer where the bolt locks into the barrel or are they all the same?
I will also comment on getting out the of the wrong side of the bed, no I didn't, I am just fed up that there are those that think just because you work for yourself that you are loaded,and have absolutely no idea about the stresses of being self employed and going to bed at night thinking about how you are going to pay your bills, not only in the morning but for the rest of year..
Anyone who is in business in this current climate will be feeling the pinch at the moment so re-investment has taken a back seat, and without re-investment you start to lag behind.
And as for using the F word, I don't know if you are aware but it is part of the Scots language and quite acceptable.
Even our Nicola uses it, see here:
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Well I'll go to foot of our stairs, Universal Receivers do exist!
I am curious however do they have different ones for the likes of Blaser or lets say Sauer where the bolt locks into the barrel or are they all the same?
I will also comment on getting out the of the wrong side of the bed, no I didn't, I am just fed up that there are those that think just because you work for yourself that you are loaded,and have absolutely no idea about the stresses of being self employed and going to bed at night thinking about how you are going to pay your bills, not only in the morning but for the rest of year..
Anyone who is in business in this current climate will be feeling the pinch at the moment so re-investment has taken a back seat, and without re-investment you start to lag behind.
And as for using the F word, I don't know if you are aware but it is part of the Scots language and quite acceptable.
No of course they don't, I never said they did, I just said that they existed.
With regards thinking its easy, totally agree and I personally don't think that what you guys charge is unreasonable more than happy to pay it and its unlikely I'll buy a new rifle rather than re-barrel a current one again (next plan is 20 ackley hornet when I run out of 35 gr 0.22 bullets). By and large the outcome is going to be better than a factory rifle and it can be personalised to what you want so a fast twist 22-250 for example, or a .243 that will handle lead free 100 gr bullets well.
The whole self employed thing you describe above does make sense but equally it is a choice you have made so you reap the benefits and you reap the rewards and fair play to yor for doing it. Personally I am number 2 in a company that employs 120 people, so in the current and upcoming climate I don't have to worry just how I will pay my bills I have to worry how I am going to keep 120 people employed to pay their bills, more than half of them with families to support - from my point of view being self employed and only responsible for yourself seems easy, not that i am saying it is it just seems it from my perspective.
As for the F word, I'm no shrinking violet but on a forum it just makes you come across as aggressive, which I'm sure you're not, but it can easily read that way.
LOL! I go off shooting for the weekend and I missed all the fun! <sarcasm>
Look, 10 years ago the same argument was made here in the US: "How about paying a gunsmith a working wage?" and "Don't leave the local gunsmith hung out to dry by buying pre-fit barrels. Besides, they're not 'hand fitted' so must be less desirable". It's all bull****.
1. Most rifles have extractors that sit flush in the bolt face, negating the need to time and cut extractor cuts in the barrels themselves (and timing can be done now CNC threading, so that's moot as well).
2. CNC machining has gotten to the accuracy level that mass produced, pre-fit barrels (and actions) can be done quickly and economically (much cheaper cost, as spread across volume).
3. Many gunsmiths have never made their living fitting barrels. More times than not, it was the little, mundane, menial tasks that paid for the lights to stay on. Fitting recoil pads, cleaning guns, replacing screws, swapping parts. There's a reason the hardcopy Brownells catalog has gunsmith prices (in code) on just about everything they sell (and why their catalog layout is copyrighted and patented). It allowed them to negotiate prices with customers (and see their costs in real time), as the customer decided what parts they wanted. But I digress...
4. The biggest reason pre-fits in the UK won't work (aside from the stupid proofing laws, which I fail to see how they could really effectively enforce) is because the gunsmiths will not change with the times. They want to fit barrels and do business as they have always done. But I will say this, and specifically to all the gunsmiths in the UK reading this, all it takes is one person to move to volume based CNC re-barreling...and you are all well and truly screwed. Make no mistake, there will always be the old school, hands on gunsmiths, but there will be a damned sight fewer of them, that's for sure. Lead times in the US used to run anywhere from 6 weeks to one year for fitting a barrel. Now, I can literally pick up the phone, specify the blank manufacturer I want, twist, contour and action pattern, and have a barrel in my hand in 7-10 days. Gunsmiths need to change the way they are doing business. Embrace technology for what it can offer, vice frustrate your customers (who could care less who, and more about what and when they can get a product). Times are changing.
Change with the times, or become part of the history...
Look, 10 years ago the same argument was made here in the US: "How about paying a gunsmith a working wage?" and "Don't leave the local gunsmith hung out to dry by buying pre-fit barrels. Besides, they're not 'hand fitted' so must be less desirable". It's all bull****.
1. Most rifles have extractors that sit flush in the bolt face, negating the need to time and cut extractor cuts in the barrels themselves (and timing can be done now CNC threading, so that's moot as well).
2. CNC machining has gotten to the accuracy level that mass produced, pre-fit barrels (and actions) can be done quickly and economically (much cheaper cost, as spread across volume).
3. Many gunsmiths have never made their living fitting barrels. More times than not, it was the little, mundane, menial tasks that paid for the lights to stay on. Fitting recoil pads, cleaning guns, replacing screws, swapping parts. There's a reason the hardcopy Brownells catalog has gunsmith prices (in code) on just about everything they sell (and why their catalog layout is copyrighted and patented). It allowed them to negotiate prices with customers (and see their costs in real time), as the customer decided what parts they wanted. But I digress...
4. The biggest reason pre-fits in the UK won't work (aside from the stupid proofing laws, which I fail to see how they could really effectively enforce) is because the gunsmiths will not change with the times. They want to fit barrels and do business as they have always done. But I will say this, and specifically to all the gunsmiths in the UK reading this, all it takes is one person to move to volume based CNC re-barreling...and you are all well and truly screwed. Make no mistake, there will always be the old school, hands on gunsmiths, but there will be a damned sight fewer of them, that's for sure. Lead times in the US used to run anywhere from 6 weeks to one year for fitting a barrel. Now, I can literally pick up the phone, specify the blank manufacturer I want, twist, contour and action pattern, and have a barrel in my hand in 7-10 days. Gunsmiths need to change the way they are doing business. Embrace technology for what it can offer, vice frustrate your customers (who could care less who, and more about what and when they can get a product). Times are changing.
Change with the times, or become part of the history...
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
Well I'll go to foot of our stairs, Universal Receivers do exist!
I am curious however do they have different ones for the likes of Blaser or lets say Sauer where the bolt locks into the barrel or are they all the same?
I will also comment on getting out the of the wrong side of the bed, no I didn't, I am just fed up that there are those that think just because you work for yourself that you are loaded,and have absolutely no idea about the stresses of being self employed and going to bed at night thinking about how you are going to pay your bills, not only in the morning but for the rest of year..
Anyone who is in business in this current climate will be feeling the pinch at the moment so re-investment has taken a back seat, and without re-investment you start to lag behind.
And as for using the F word, I don't know if you are aware but it is part of the Scots language and quite acceptable.
Even our Nicola uses it, see here:
If you didn’t actually know, universal receivers do exist and have nothing really to do with practical rifles.
they are made for pressure testing ammunition and made to go with special barrels, the idea being that you can change the barrels, and hence the chambers, very quickly to test different sorts of ammunition. They have provision for pressure testing equipment and hence there is no such concern as fitting blaser or saucer or what have you barrels as they are just for testing ammunition.
Hence the joke which appears to have flown over everyone concerned heads...
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
The problem with your idea is that the market here will not support the kind of investment that is required.
There’s around 560,000 (iirc) FAC and SGC holders in the UK. How many million in the US?
The thing is that unless we have a change in law that allows you to swap and change firearms. Without the rigamarole of a variation, then you are not going to get much more than the current level of work.
A Guy Out West
Well-Known Member
I’ve never seen it that inexpensive. For a good quality barrel, fitted and chambered, trued, blued, crowned, it’s going to cost you north of $800 or so. When I consider re-barreling, I just end up buying a new gun, the cost is almost the same. Others might know people in the industry that can get it done for less, I don’t however.
If for instance I had 20 barrels on the shelf all threaded and chambered, I could send these barrels for proof using universal recievers, have I understood your reply correctly? Or are they just for testing ammunition?If you didn’t actually know, universal receivers do exist and have nothing really to do with practical rifles.
they are made for pressure testing ammunition and made to go with special barrels, the idea being that you can change the barrels, and hence the chambers, very quickly to test different sorts of ammunition. They have provision for pressure testing equipment and hence there is no such concern as fitting blaser or saucer or what have you barrels as they are just for testing ammunition.
Hence the joke which appears to have flown over everyone concerned heads...
Regards
N
Grandhubert
Well-Known Member
Afraid not mate, they are for pressure testing ammo.
Cool bits of kit but strictly for ammo makers
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it wouldn’t substitute for proof, which is strictly speaking meant to be a test of the whole barrel/action system rather than any one part, but a pressure trace system is good fun and very illuminating for reloading for individual rifles.
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No, universal receivers are threaded for really large diameter test barrels (think 2" thick), and are intended to test pressure not the robustness of a particular action and barrel.
Again, proofing is an anachronistic anecdotal test, that has far exceeded its usefulness as a measure of safety. At this point, it's as useful as a human's appendix; it's there, but serves no useful purpose.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
But it does, it makes money for the two Proof houses.
Back when the laws were passed it made perfect sense. Now not so much, as metallurgy is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was then.
That said I have seen plenty of things that would fail (put guns out of) proof. Maybe it stops even more examples of things done wrong.
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Have you been on the receiving end of a firearm when it failed?
You might think differently if you had.
No, I don't shoot shitty firearms, so it isn't a problem. Perhaps you should be more careful in your selection of a firearm or your reloading practices? It'll greatly reduce the chance of "having a firearm fail".
IME, firearms rarely fail. People on the other hand...
Sonicdmb73
Well-Known Member
Perhaps you shouldn’t jump to conclusions either.
You assume that it was not factory, sorry wrong. The firearm in question is not known for failing either.
Your comment “Greatly reduce” is telling. In the fact you didn’t say won’t have.
While you can mitigate the risk you cannot remove it completely. It can and does happen. Even with modern rifles and factory ammunition.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
I have , ironically enough , it had British proof marks . It was a late 70's manufacture stock Parker Hale in 308 Win . It says nothing about PHs quality , it does warn you not to put blind trust in proof marks though .
AB
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
I’m detecting a bit of negativity towards prefits... not quite sure why - coming from LW they’d be top quality. Certainly built and cut to a higher standard than all but the highest end rifles, who are possibly using them anyway. And I wasn’t suggesting people DIY, just that it shouldn’t take a gunsmith long to headspace one.
Also, 600+ is fairly pirateacle price - someone’s placing a very very hefty markup on LW barrels. A LW prefit is au$540 here - and Pricing is generally on par with other shooting related products between the two countries if you convert $2 to 1GBP (standard pay equivalent), or about double what Americans pay. I can’t see why they would be so much in the UK, but I guess that’s the way it is...
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