Deer management skills training research - scotland

[caorach]

We do not know at what level of skill our Scottish stalking community operates. We do not know at what level of skill our Scottish stalking community wants to operate. If there is a demand for more skills training and guidance are there facilities available to deliver? The skills tick list in the questionnaire represents NOS and is designed to help answer these questions. The questionnaire will be followed up by looking at capacity v demand for training.

My problem with this Mike is that I've seen no evidence to indicate that the current level of skills are presenting any problems for public health, safety, habitat management or deer welfare. By extrapolation we, therefore, know the level of skill of stalkers which is to say that it is very high and they are operating at the highest possible standard.

There currently seems to be no shortage of people out there wanting deer stalkers, of any type and background, to have more training but that I can see, apart from the emotional arguments or the limited demand from people who want to improve their knowledge and skill for the simple sake of personal development, there is absolutely no evidence that any further training is necessary.

I suspect there are a large number of people out there who view stalking as a potential cash cow and also as a source of employment for hundreds or thousands of civil servants to "manage" the activity, however as stalkers we don't need or want this and we don't need or want relieved of any more of our money. We just want left alone to get on with our very safe activity in which, the evidence would indicate, we are already extremely skilled.

If you want to take money from a cash cow that shows evidence of being unskilled in its particular field and which has cash to burn then why not offer training courses for bankers. It would seem to me that they are much more able to pay and much more in need than stalkers are.

 

[6pointer]

Great reply caorach and it is about the jobs and the money. The register its self will cost you FIT N COMPITENT. many many people in admin cull returns etc etc the money will be made. Might be time for all stalkers to get on to there Orgnisations and ask them to limit the hit they are the ones deciding. NGO SGA BASC BDS ADMG .All will be working on this and i would think will be looking for there pound of flesh.

 

[Harry mac]

Don't know where you are coming from. SNH are doing a lot to improve the recreational stalker, Best practice is a fantastic concept. A lot of us has benifited from it. The bar is being raised but they are trying to keep the recreational stalkers up to speed. There is not the rangers to keep up with the cull requirements. I note the flack 6p got for the deer by the houses. That is common down the m8 m9 corridor. Any shot taken will have a house in range. Probably better to be closer because unseen dangers lie behind any bush. for them to let it happen they must keep up the standards. They have the professionals in house with the teaching experience led by Ronnie Rose. There is a big difference between the rec stalker on forestry and lowland beats than the highland estates and contrary to your racist remark the majority are not English but foreign or home bred. To throw unfounded accusations at them serves no purpose so maybe you will enlighten us with the facts behind your post,
Jim

SNH may have instigated schemes like "Best Practice", but it's just yet another layer of beurocracy to contend with. Government departments like to meddle with things, and as I see it, that's precisely what this is.
As far as I'm aware, there are a hell of a lot of people in Scotland quietly and safely conducting deer management and participating in recreational stalking. We never seem to hear of any danger being posed to the public, and very seldom does there seem to be any real problems occuring as regards conflict between stalkers and other land users. What I'm saying, although caorach seems to have put it better than me, is that further intrusion on our activities as stalkers is niether desired nor required.
I do take exception to being called a racist. I made no racist remarks. I merely attempted to describe the mind-set which seems to be prevalent in some quarters of the Scottish Parliament.
As for unfounded accusations, exacly why has the Scottish government been pushing to get resposibility for firearms control legislation devolved to the Scottish Parliament? I bet it's not in order to de-regulate it. The Scottish gov't (or, at least, some very voiciferous MSPs) is very definately anti shooting.

 

[jimbo123p]

Firstly I apologise for the lack of clarity in my comment. I said racist remark. I was refering to you calling the scottish parliament racist. However having had direct dealings with SNH deer management I can state that I have only found their approach professional and deer centred. They have dedicated members of staff. While they work for SNH they have thier own department. The very fact they seek our input should tell you something. Jim

 

[DL]

I understand why folks would be synical, but I am confused why it should be seen as " ....Is this Scottish stalkers being handed a knife and being asked to slit their own throats?".

I will try to clarify some of the suspicion on this. Before you started in your position, the then DCS submitted their report to the Scottish government with claims that there had been a number of fatalities and injuries caused by deer stalking in Scotland, it was on the back of these dishonest claims, that the compulsory competency requirement was voiced.

LANTRA, as the skills council for Gamekeeping & Wildlife Management sector, are responsible for National Occupational Standards

Are LANTRA not in a pretty good position to provide assessments and qualifications? Alternative qualifications for Scottish stalkers have been discussed a few times on here.

Indeed one member of this forum attended a meeting and had this to say :

"BUT IT WAS CLEAR THAT THERE MIGHT ONLY BE A NEED TO STALK AND SHOOT ONE DEER TO GET ON THE LIST."

We do not know at what level of skill our Scottish stalking community operates. We do not know at what level of skill our Scottish stalking community wants to operate.

The responses to the WANE bill indicate that mandatory qualifications are pretty unwelcome.

If there is a demand for more skills training and guidance are there facilities available to deliver? The skills tick list in the questionnaire represents NOS and is designed to help answer these questions. The questionnaire will be followed up by looking at capacity v demand for training.

The questionaire appears to be loaded towards the participants supporting the idea that training is needed, as there is no option to suggest that training may not be required.

Davie asks if this research is designed to set a level for a new "exam" on competence, a topic raised by Scottish Parliament. Honest answer is "no", because the Scottish Parliament has asked the private deer sector (not SNH) to consider the topic and report back in 2014, so we don't know what might develop.

It appears from the outside looking in, that perhaps preparations are being made in case the private sector has the responsibility removed from them in 2014. Otherwise, how, when every organisation is noticing large cuts to their budgets, would SNH be able to justify commissioning LANTRA to do the aforementioned?

 

[bogtrotter]

Firstly I apologise for the lack of clarity in my comment. I said racist remark. I was refering to you calling the scottish parliament racist. However having had direct dealings with SNH deer management I can state that I have only found their approach professional and deer centred. They have dedicated members of staff. While they work for SNH they have thier own department. The very fact they seek our input should tell you something. Jim

Indeed it does tell me something, only it may not be the same as its telling you.