17HMR Terminal Performance

[samdk]

I did a ballistic gel test at 100, 150 & 200 yards with 17gr Hornady V max in my 17HMR to test the expansion at different ranges and thought others might find this interesting.

100 & 150 yards showed good expansion and wide wound channel, the base of the bullet at both ranges exited the block and lots of copper and lead fragments were found in the wound channel.

200 yards showed minimal expansion and narrow wound channel (mostly cause by the bullet tumbling) and also exited, with no metal fragments in the wound channel, only the plastic tip.

The block was 20% gelatine and measured 9” x 9” x 5”, I may do this test again with a larger block to try abs capture the all parts of the bullet.

Sam

 

[Foxyboy43]

Nice work that man. There are a few youtubers who have done similar and the consensus seems to be at 200 yds the bullet will not "perform" in the way it does below that distance. That said for rabbit-sized quarry I have found that it still is highly effective even at that distance (my longest was 236 yds) and still a very accurate round.

 

[Cottis]

I see quite extreme variations in HMR bullet performance (Vmax variants, Federal, Hornady, Norma etc)

I was out yesterday afternoon with the HMR.

I shot 2 rabbits and a squirrel and in just three shots saw performance across the range of the spectrum. 1st rabbit was shot at about 25yds, a poor shot considering it was so close, i somehow hit it low in the lower neck area. No entry or exit wound and unless you really started poking around, you would be hard pressed to realise it had been shot.

Rabbit 2 was shot between 100 and 150yds. Again, a poor shot off sticks that hit it centre mass, basically exploding it with guts hanging out everywhere. You would be forgiven for thinking it had been disembowled with a .22CF.

Squirrel was shot at approx 100yds through the upper chest. Tiny entry hole visible and a slightly larger exit hole but no apparent over expansion or damage.

Always found it to be a fine killer but that is maybe more a result of a small animal being hit with a screaming bullet. Terminal performance has always been varied. I suppose the same can be said for most bullets but the varying degrees I see with the 17g Vmax bullet are vast.

 

[TomDeer]

I did a ballistic gel test at 100, 150 & 200 yards with 17gr Hornady V max in my 17HMR to test the expansion at different ranges and thought others might find this interesting.

100 & 150 yards showed good expansion and wide wound channel, the base of the bullet at both ranges exited the block and lots of copper and lead fragments were found in the wound channel.

200 yards showed minimal expansion and narrow wound channel (mostly cause by the bullet tumbling) and also exited, with no metal fragments in the wound channel, only the plastic tip.

The block was 20% gelatine and measured 9” x 9” x 5”, I may do this test again with a larger block to try abs capture the all parts of the bullet.

Sam

Interesting. Thanks for posting.

 

[Foxyboy43]

As an aside I had three out of 10 Hornady split cases on saturday - all checked as ok before firing. So Mr Hornady all is defo not as good as you seem to think it is!

 

[DVS1]

I run the 20gr XTP or CCI Gamepoint...essentially the same round...and I don't recall 1 split case with CCI and had a split neck in my last trip out with the XTP. The likes of Winchester, remington etc in then17gr groups have all given me split necks at some point.

 

[Foxyboy43]

I run the 20gr XTP or CCI Gamepoint...essentially the same round...and I don't recall 1 split case with CCI and had a split neck in my last trip out with the XTP. The likes of Winchester, remington etc in then17gr groups have all given me split necks at some point.

Aye - the odd thing is there isn’t much press about any great risk yet if it was a c/f calibre you would expect there to be an outcry or even recall Particularly in the litigious US. I have seen a 17 which blew the mag, mag well and part of the stock clean out of the gun - probably due to a misfired bullet lodging in the barrel but it did demonstrate just how much potential there is for serious injury in this tiny round.

 

[beanieboy]

My CZ452 HMR was one of the most accurate rifles I've ever owned and I never had a single issue with ammo, but, it was horrendous in any sort of wind. I changed to a WSM which performs much better in breezy conditions and also hits much harder than the HMR. Definitively a much better performer at the stated 200 yards than the HMR. Just a pity CZ don't do one. I've just recently bought a CZ527 17 Hornet to reach out that bit further still. Wind will always be the enemy though, especially of the smaller calibres like the 17.

 

[Jelen]

Aye - the odd thing is there isn’t much press about any great risk yet if it was a c/f calibre you would expect there to be an outcry or even recall Particularly in the litigious US. I have seen a 17 which blew the mag, mag well and part of the stock clean out of the gun - probably due to a misfired bullet lodging in the barrel but it did demonstrate just how much potential there is for serious injury in this tiny round.

Got to agree with you. I personally have seen 2 cases where the ammunition malfunctioned. One was while I was in a gunsmiths buying ammo for my 17HMR when a chap walked in with a rifle where the mag had blown off similar to what you describe. The gunsmith said he'd had another one that came in the month before and the owner had received facial injuries. One where our keeper fired a shot and the discharge didn't sound right. He worked the bolt to chamber another round but couldn't fully close the bolt. On inspection there was a bullet lodged in the barrel. Luckily in his case it wasn't stuck further into the barrel! Coupled with me having cases that were split after firing, and on inspection prior to loading noticing a few cases with split necks, I got rid of my 17.

 

[Foxyboy43]

Aye - but it really is a great round for vermin at distance so a real shame. I have never had the dreaded click with the 17 but only last week had it in the 6.5. Common sense and years of range work prevailed so upon investigation I discovered zero powder in case. Of course my friend, ahem, who does all my reloading was very embarrassed.

 

[Leics_stalker]

Great work, out of interest where are you getting your gelatine from? I fancy having a go at making some ballistics gel. TIA

 

[samdk]

Nice work that man. There are a few youtubers who have done similar and the consensus seems to be at 200 yds the bullet will not "perform" in the way it does below that distance. That said for rabbit-sized quarry I have found that it still is highly effective even at that distance (my longest was 236 yds) and still a very accurate round.

Thanks! I often shoot rabbits out to 200yards and like you say it does the job well!

Sam

 

[samdk]

Great work, out of interest where are you getting your gelatine from? I fancy having a go at making some ballistics gel. TIA

I order it in 1kg tubs off of Amazon or eBay, it can be tricky to mix at times but well worth the effort! Make sure you heat your desired amount of water to around 40*C then add the powder a bit at a time making sure it’s resolved fully and also make sure you use olive oil or similar to lube the inside of the mould or it’s a pig to get out!
Mix ratios can be 10% gelatine or 20% based on weight, 20% behaves more like the real thing!

Sam

 

[samdk]

I see quite extreme variations in HMR bullet performance (Vmax variants, Federal, Hornady, Norma etc)

I was out yesterday afternoon with the HMR.

I shot 2 rabbits and a squirrel and in just three shots saw performance across the range of the spectrum. 1st rabbit was shot at about 25yds, a poor shot considering it was so close, i somehow hit it low in the lower neck area. No entry or exit wound and unless you really started poking around, you would be hard pressed to realise it had been shot.

Rabbit 2 was shot between 100 and 150yds. Again, a poor shot off sticks that hit it centre mass, basically exploding it with guts hanging out everywhere. You would be forgiven for thinking it had been disembowled with a .22CF.

Squirrel was shot at approx 100yds through the upper chest. Tiny entry hole visible and a slightly larger exit hole but no apparent over expansion or damage.

Always found it to be a fine killer but that is maybe more a result of a small animal being hit with a screaming bullet. Terminal performance has always been varied. I suppose the same can be said for most bullets but the varying degrees I see with the 17g Vmax bullet are vast.

The results do vary hugely on live quarry, things like bone have a big effect on expansion and so does the mass of the part you hit.
Things like neck shots don’t have much volume or mass and struggle to produce the pressures needed for rapid expansion, chest and “centre mass” tend to be better.

Sam

 

[samdk]

As an aside I had three out of 10 Hornady split cases on saturday - all checked as ok before firing. So Mr Hornady all is defo not as good as you seem to think it is!

I have found numerous split cases too, when testing velocity with my 17hmr I found the splits to have little effect of velocity..... which surprised me as you would have thought they would leak pressure and the velocity would drop.
It is still disappointing to see such poor quality!

Sam

 

[samdk]

I run the 20gr XTP or CCI Gamepoint...essentially the same round...and I don't recall 1 split case with CCI and had a split neck in my last trip out with the XTP. The likes of Winchester, remington etc in then17gr groups have all given me split necks at some point.

I use the CCI 20gr gamepoints and although they are very accurate they have a wider SD than the Hornady Vmax (which shows past 100yards) and I still get split cases!

From what I have seen the split cases tend to be down to the gun, some guns seem to be more prone to it than others and I can only assume that is down to chamber dimensions. A sloppy chamber will allow the case more room to expand into and subsequently split and I tighter one won’t.

I have found little effect on velocity or accuracy from split cases which is reassuring.

Sam

 

[Cottis]

I have found numerous split cases too, when testing velocity with my 17hmr I found the splits to have little effect of velocity..... which surprised me as you would have thought they would leak pressure and the velocity would drop.
It is still disappointing to see such poor quality!

Sam

From a reloading point of view, you might not be too happy with those numbers but I can tell you that the ammunition you have there for the HMR is very very good with such relatively small spread for mass produced rimfire ammunition.

I have seen many different batches having shot thousands of rounds through mine. We once shot a particularly poor batch of ammunition over the chrono. We emptied a box on to a target and it amazingly produced extreme spread of over 400 fps over 50 rounds ha ha ha. There were some vertical stringing issues at any target over 80yds. No split necks in that ammo. Just tons of obvious run out and poorly charged cases, potentially with some crappy primer compound in it.

And then you get the really good stuff sometimes which is genuine half inch ammunition at 100yds and makes the rifle a genuine 200yd rabbit gun. When you find that stuff, get your backside back to the gun shop and buy it all.

If you are finding split necks before the rounds have been fired, I would genuinely take them back to the shop though. That is where you run the risk of chambering a round that has had the potential to suffer from moisture ingress which is most likely why people run in to squibs, get a bullet stuck a few inches down the barrel, don't realise because they are not paying the sort of attention they should be and then stick another round down the spout and pull the trigger. Boom! Not good.

It is a pain but it is worth checking all ammo before you fire it. Takes a couple of minutes to check a box of 50 under a lamp. Not that big a deal to ensure you are operating safely and can enjoy what is a really good small pest cartridge.

If you encounter split necks after firing, that is fine.

 

[Foxyboy43]

From a reloading point of view, you might not be too happy with those numbers but I can tell you that the ammunition you have there for the HMR is very very good with such relatively small spread for mass produced rimfire ammunition.

I have seen many different batches having shot thousands of rounds through mine. We once shot a particularly poor batch of ammunition over the chrono. We emptied a box on to a target and it amazingly produced extreme spread of over 400 fps over 50 rounds ha ha ha. There were some vertical stringing issues at any target over 80yds. No split necks in that ammo. Just tons of obvious run out and poorly charged cases, potentially with some crappy primer compound in it.

And then you get the really good stuff sometimes which is genuine half inch ammunition at 100yds and makes the rifle a genuine 200yd rabbit gun. When you find that stuff, get your backside back to the gun shop and buy it all.

If you are finding split necks before the rounds have been fired, I would genuinely take them back to the shop though. That is where you run the risk of chambering a round that has had the potential to suffer from moisture ingress which is most likely why people run in to squibs, get a bullet stuck a few inches down the barrel, don't realise because they are not paying the sort of attention they should be and then stick another round down the spout and pull the trigger. Boom! Not good.

It is a pain but it is worth checking all ammo before you fire it. Takes a couple of minutes to check a box of 50 under a lamp. Not that big a deal to ensure you are operating safely and can enjoy what is a really good small pest cartridge.

If you encounter split necks after firing, that is fine.

Sound advice indeed but split cases in the box are a bit of an undeniable counter to Mr H’s broadcast that it must be your gun! That said and despite splits before or after firing the 17 gns are a very accurate round. As an aside I tried a box of 15gns lead free and found that if a mouse sneezed two fields away they went everywhere. Must be my gun, of course.........

 

[samdk]

From a reloading point of view, you might not be too happy with those numbers but I can tell you that the ammunition you have there for the HMR is very very good with such relatively small spread for mass produced rimfire ammunition.

I have seen many different batches having shot thousands of rounds through mine. We once shot a particularly poor batch of ammunition over the chrono. We emptied a box on to a target and it amazingly produced extreme spread of over 400 fps over 50 rounds ha ha ha. There were some vertical stringing issues at any target over 80yds. No split necks in that ammo. Just tons of obvious run out and poorly charged cases, potentially with some crappy primer compound in it.

And then you get the really good stuff sometimes which is genuine half inch ammunition at 100yds and makes the rifle a genuine 200yd rabbit gun. When you find that stuff, get your backside back to the gun shop and buy it all.

If you are finding split necks before the rounds have been fired, I would genuinely take them back to the shop though. That is where you run the risk of chambering a round that has had the potential to suffer from moisture ingress which is most likely why people run in to squibs, get a bullet stuck a few inches down the barrel, don't realise because they are not paying the sort of attention they should be and then stick another round down the spout and pull the trigger. Boom! Not good.

It is a pain but it is worth checking all ammo before you fire it. Takes a couple of minutes to check a box of 50 under a lamp. Not that big a deal to ensure you are operating safely and can enjoy what is a really good small pest cartridge.

If you encounter split necks after firing, that is fine.

Yes an SD of around 17 FPS is not idea hand loaded ammo but like you say for rimfire ammo this batch seems great!
I totally agree on what you are saying, there is such big variations from batch to batch, it can be rubbish at times.

I am yet to find any with split necks before firing though, I will be sure to keep an eye out.

Sam

 

[Cottis]

Sound advice indeed but split cases in the box are a bit of an undeniable counter to Mr H’s broadcast that it must be your gun! That said and despite splits before or after firing the 17 gns are a very accurate round. As an aside I tried a box of 15gns lead free and found that if a mouse sneezed two fields away they went everywhere. Must be my gun, of course.........

Eh? Who is Mr H? Sorry if I missed something. I am still excited having been allowed to play golf today for the first time in yonks.

Never tried 15grainers before. The 20grainers were always terrible in my rifle, as were 17grain FMJ's that I once tried for a laugh. CCI Tnt with the little hollow point speer bullets are good and all the variants of 17g Vmax that CCI make for all the brands, so Hornady, CCI, Remington, Federal, Norma etc are all fine if the batch is good enough.