Does this mean you have a stash of N550 or access to retail stock?
From another forum: "It was confirmed by VhitaVouri that as these powders age the nitro does move closer to the the surface of the powder kernel and change the burn rate."
what powder for driving a Barnes TTSX .308 130gr in a 20.5" barrel?
- Thread starter alasdair
- Start date
From another forum: "It was confirmed by VhitaVouri that as these powders age the nitro does move closer to the the surface of the powder kernel and change the burn rate."
JTO said "Does this mean you have a stash of N550 or access to retail stock?"
I have more N550 (1kg un-opened) than I'm going to need if I go down the 130gr TTSX and N135 route.
I hadn't heard that Vihtavuori powders had a shelf life.
Thanks for your warning - does that apply to N135 as it is not double base = no added nitro?
I'm a recreational stalker and OAP and kind of assumed that any powders I have will outlive me!
Alasdair in the Pentland hills -5ºC this morning!
I have more N550 (1kg un-opened) than I'm going to need if I go down the 130gr TTSX and N135 route.
I hadn't heard that Vihtavuori powders had a shelf life.
Thanks for your warning - does that apply to N135 as it is not double base = no added nitro?
I'm a recreational stalker and OAP and kind of assumed that any powders I have will outlive me!
Alasdair in the Pentland hills -5ºC this morning!
Thanks again for all these most helpful replies.
I'm thinking I'll start with the TTSX 130gr in my .308
Before I lash out on powder - I'm inclined to go for the VIT N135 -
but would the VIT N530 be any better?
I see david1 is going for that.
Pro's & Con's between N135 & N530?
(of course I'm not sure I can source N530 locally - and here in Scotland with current Covid restrictions it would need to be local!)
Alasdair in the Pentland hills & only -2ºC this morning.
I'm thinking I'll start with the TTSX 130gr in my .308
Before I lash out on powder - I'm inclined to go for the VIT N135 -
but would the VIT N530 be any better?
I see david1 is going for that.
Pro's & Con's between N135 & N530?
(of course I'm not sure I can source N530 locally - and here in Scotland with current Covid restrictions it would need to be local!)
Alasdair in the Pentland hills & only -2ºC this morning.
stalker.308
Well-Known Member
Is there any difference in how you load ttsx 130 to tsx130? I can find data for using viht n140 for tsx but not ttsx. I am using n140 at the minute for a lead load and thought be nice to try some ttsx on the same powder.
Utectok
Well-Known Member
Yes your right I’m not sure it matters? Tbh the .308 vhit max loads are pretty anaemic and with n140 you are going to run out of case capacity before you are over pressure. Obviously be cautious but the only time I have had any case pressures problems was with to little a jump on the ttsx where I had a couple of sticky ejections.
The loads I uses with ttsx I put through a drop tube (a brass one to avoid static) and these don’t get compressed at all if dropped.
Im thinking of moving over to n130 though a little faster watch this space!
There is a difference between the bullets, I assume due to different numbers of relief grooves between the TSX (2) and TTSX (3).
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
To be fair, it is marked as a compressed load. The fact you'll probably need to compress it in a hydraulic press is irrelevantI'd love to see how anybody will manage to stuff 49.2 grs. of Varget behind a 130 TTSX at 2.735" COAL.
Steff
Well-Known Member
My point is, that this goes to show that I doubt that they have actually tested what they are publishing.To be fair, it is marked as a compressed load. The fact you'll probably need to compress it in a hydraulic press is irrelevant
Just use a 12" drop tube and it will likely no longer be compressed!To be fair, it is marked as a compressed load. The fact you'll probably need to compress it in a hydraulic press is irrelevant
We carry most powders and are in sight of the pentlands
I run N133 under similar weight monolithics
530 is possibly a bit too fast imo, would need to look at the curve
I want full cases
berg
Well-Known Member
Love 4895 shame we can't get ot any more i used it with 130 grn barnes for7 years untill they stop it then moved to v140, now using n135 and i am happy with the results
My thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. It's been most helpful.
I thought I'd update you on my progress to date.
While working up the new .308 loads and shooting in the new rifle I've gone back to using Sako 100gr Gameheads (lead core) in my .243 for actual stalking and been much reassured by the improved "knock-over" power of that round (against my Barnes TSX at 3300fps MV).
I'd been reading all over the place about what gives bullets that sort of clout and am persuaded by the argument that some degree of disintegration "dumps" more energy in the animal which gives the punch effect. So became interested in non-lead bullets that to some degree disintegrate as opposed straight expansion. Earlier in this thread Yorric drew my attention to Neilsen Sonic Hunts bullets - a brass bullet with a hollow nose, a brass plunger (to initiate disintegration and improve ballistics and feed) and pre-cut fracture lines.
I also came across the Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos copper bullets - also designed for the front part to disintegrate leaving a solid base to pass through.
The TTSX 130grain .308's I had on order from Brownells UK (no-one in UK had any) have got stuck in transit from USA (apologies sent by Brownells who are working on it).
A mate of mine found 3/4 of a 1 Kg tub of VV N135 in his gun cupboard and gave it to me!
I was able to obtain some Neilsen Sonic Hunt in 110gr .308 ( Projectiles Practice — Store 1 — Deer Gear )
and some of their (cheaper, but ballistically identical) non-expanding target rounds ( Nielsen Sonic Lead Free Target — Deer Gear )
and
some of the Controlled Chaos copper in 115gr .308
So to stop myself going stir crazy decided to start with what I have.
I loaded up some full length resized & trimmed used Federal .308 cases my mate produced.
I decided to try the Scott Satterlee "10 round" approach - first time for me!
VV give loads for Barnes TSX 110gr .308 using N135 as 43.2 min to 46.3 max.
So I loaded 14 cases from 43.1 gr increasing at 0.3 gr intervals up to 45gr and then at 0.2gr intervals to 46.4gr
I proceeded in a leisurely fashion (during that warm still spell we had) with Magnetospeed in situ and target at 100 metres to work my way through noting the MV's. I'd never tried this before and the emphasis was on recording MV rather accuracy (though to be fair the Magnetospeed doesn't seem to adversely affect POI at that range). I had my Swaro' 8x65 on it as I want to keep the X6 2.5-15x56 on my .243 for hunting. I was amazed to watch the group shrink as the loads increased to less an inch between 44.7gr (3041fps) and 45.2gr (3045fps) before opening up again and then tightening up a little bit at a second flat spot between 45.8gr (3108fps) and 46.4gr. (3107fps)
BUT from about 45.8gr I was getting more recoil and a slightly stiff bolt lift - not really stiff but noticeably more than the lower node (no other pressure signs AFAICS). I just felt more comfortable shooting at the 3041+fps node than the 3107fps node. I dare say for longer distance and target shooting the faster node might be better but this is for short range hunting so I've settled for the 3041+fps node. It's also a "wider node" (the faster node might be just as wide but I'd have to exceed max load recommended to find out).
I've previously used Lapua cases and have more confidence in them although I believe Federal (used) cases have a good name. I couldn't help notice that there felt some variation in resistance when re-sizing the used Federal cases - I don't know if this was my imagination - you can get to thinking too much about these things! I've ordered some Lapua cases to put my mind at rest.
So I'll load a couple of dozen Nielsen's at 45.4gr and take it from there. All have been loaded such that the first driving band is just inside the neck (makers recommendation) I'm hoping that will give me sub inch groups for hunting without messing about with differing jumps.
I'm also wondering, since my barrel is noticeably more sooty than my .243/N550/BarnesTSX rounds used to be, whether I'm getting incomplete powder burn and whether a marginally faster, double base (N530) would perform better (& in the Lapua case!).
I have a supply of the Controlled Chaos copper in 115gr which I'll experiment with later - they are very clean looking rounds, almost sculptural, with really quite dramatically narrow driving bands and according to Lehigh published data are very slippery in the barrel and go fast for weight and load. They are also surprisingly cheap compared to most non-lead. I've also got some Barnes TTSX in 110gr promised any day now from a reliable source in Tain.
Once I have the Neilson Sonic Hunt shooting to my satisfaction I'll start trying them on deer (Roe).
I'm loving shooting with the Sako 85 Finnlight 2 immensely. The light weight and balance and that adjustable cheek piece really do make it so much easier to hold steady. I have high hopes that it will give me the "knock-over clout" of the Sako 100gr Gamehead .243 (lead core) but using non-lead in a rifle that is lighter than my Sako 75 .243 and more comfortable to shoot and carry.
I'll keep you posted as to further progress and hope others will give further feed-back on their non-lead experience.
Incidentally there is an excellent paper by Andrew Yool : "Rifles for Roe" in the Spring 2021 edition of "Deer" (the BDS Journal) which would be of interest to those following this thread.
Thanks, Alasdair.
I thought I'd update you on my progress to date.
While working up the new .308 loads and shooting in the new rifle I've gone back to using Sako 100gr Gameheads (lead core) in my .243 for actual stalking and been much reassured by the improved "knock-over" power of that round (against my Barnes TSX at 3300fps MV).
I'd been reading all over the place about what gives bullets that sort of clout and am persuaded by the argument that some degree of disintegration "dumps" more energy in the animal which gives the punch effect. So became interested in non-lead bullets that to some degree disintegrate as opposed straight expansion. Earlier in this thread Yorric drew my attention to Neilsen Sonic Hunts bullets - a brass bullet with a hollow nose, a brass plunger (to initiate disintegration and improve ballistics and feed) and pre-cut fracture lines.
I also came across the Lehigh Defense Controlled Chaos copper bullets - also designed for the front part to disintegrate leaving a solid base to pass through.
The TTSX 130grain .308's I had on order from Brownells UK (no-one in UK had any) have got stuck in transit from USA (apologies sent by Brownells who are working on it).
A mate of mine found 3/4 of a 1 Kg tub of VV N135 in his gun cupboard and gave it to me!
I was able to obtain some Neilsen Sonic Hunt in 110gr .308 ( Projectiles Practice — Store 1 — Deer Gear )
and some of their (cheaper, but ballistically identical) non-expanding target rounds ( Nielsen Sonic Lead Free Target — Deer Gear )
and
some of the Controlled Chaos copper in 115gr .308
So to stop myself going stir crazy decided to start with what I have.
I loaded up some full length resized & trimmed used Federal .308 cases my mate produced.
I decided to try the Scott Satterlee "10 round" approach - first time for me!
VV give loads for Barnes TSX 110gr .308 using N135 as 43.2 min to 46.3 max.
So I loaded 14 cases from 43.1 gr increasing at 0.3 gr intervals up to 45gr and then at 0.2gr intervals to 46.4gr
I proceeded in a leisurely fashion (during that warm still spell we had) with Magnetospeed in situ and target at 100 metres to work my way through noting the MV's. I'd never tried this before and the emphasis was on recording MV rather accuracy (though to be fair the Magnetospeed doesn't seem to adversely affect POI at that range). I had my Swaro' 8x65 on it as I want to keep the X6 2.5-15x56 on my .243 for hunting. I was amazed to watch the group shrink as the loads increased to less an inch between 44.7gr (3041fps) and 45.2gr (3045fps) before opening up again and then tightening up a little bit at a second flat spot between 45.8gr (3108fps) and 46.4gr. (3107fps)
BUT from about 45.8gr I was getting more recoil and a slightly stiff bolt lift - not really stiff but noticeably more than the lower node (no other pressure signs AFAICS). I just felt more comfortable shooting at the 3041+fps node than the 3107fps node. I dare say for longer distance and target shooting the faster node might be better but this is for short range hunting so I've settled for the 3041+fps node. It's also a "wider node" (the faster node might be just as wide but I'd have to exceed max load recommended to find out).
I've previously used Lapua cases and have more confidence in them although I believe Federal (used) cases have a good name. I couldn't help notice that there felt some variation in resistance when re-sizing the used Federal cases - I don't know if this was my imagination - you can get to thinking too much about these things! I've ordered some Lapua cases to put my mind at rest.
So I'll load a couple of dozen Nielsen's at 45.4gr and take it from there. All have been loaded such that the first driving band is just inside the neck (makers recommendation) I'm hoping that will give me sub inch groups for hunting without messing about with differing jumps.
I'm also wondering, since my barrel is noticeably more sooty than my .243/N550/BarnesTSX rounds used to be, whether I'm getting incomplete powder burn and whether a marginally faster, double base (N530) would perform better (& in the Lapua case!).
I have a supply of the Controlled Chaos copper in 115gr which I'll experiment with later - they are very clean looking rounds, almost sculptural, with really quite dramatically narrow driving bands and according to Lehigh published data are very slippery in the barrel and go fast for weight and load. They are also surprisingly cheap compared to most non-lead. I've also got some Barnes TTSX in 110gr promised any day now from a reliable source in Tain
.Once I have the Neilson Sonic Hunt shooting to my satisfaction I'll start trying them on deer (Roe).
I'm loving shooting with the Sako 85 Finnlight 2 immensely. The light weight and balance and that adjustable cheek piece really do make it so much easier to hold steady. I have high hopes that it will give me the "knock-over clout" of the Sako 100gr Gamehead .243 (lead core) but using non-lead in a rifle that is lighter than my Sako 75 .243 and more comfortable to shoot and carry.
I'll keep you posted as to further progress and hope others will give further feed-back on their non-lead experience.
Incidentally there is an excellent paper by Andrew Yool : "Rifles for Roe" in the Spring 2021 edition of "Deer" (the BDS Journal) which would be of interest to those following this thread.
Thanks, Alasdair.
Probably tighter than average internal dimensions. Lucky you!
Similar threads
