I have Mannlicher Schonauer Mod 1950 with a Rigby-style peep sight mounted on the bolt and folding rear sights which effectivley negate the peep sight. I presumed that if I wanted to use the peep the rear sights would have to be drifted out, put in a box and then lost.
Bringing back detachable iron sights
- Thread starter User00040
- Start date
No. It's for a different purpose in many cases. Although maybe not with your 1950 Model. It used to be the case that one could tell a British market rifle made for use in India vs one made for use in Africa. The one for Africa would often be sighted out to 1,000 yards or more.
The practice on safari being to "brown" a convenient herd of meat animals and the send the trackers and etc., to follow up and bring back the meat from the animals killed for meals. In India this didn't happen. People went home for tea (pretty much) so rifles for India weren't sighted so.
My own 1905 .280 Ross that I once owned was an "African" rifle as it had a mid-sight fixed and folding baldes to, from memory, 500 yards with a ladder sight as part of the mid-sight out to 1200 yards or so. The same 1905 Model for Highland or Indian use I've seen with just fixed and folding blades to merely 500 yards or so.
The other one time convention was that (regardless of where it was being stationed or posted) if an officer's private sporting rifle COULD USE service .303 ball AND ALSO was sighted to 1200 yards it could be sent out accompanying his battalion's or regiment's service weapons at the War Office's cost and not his own.
So you could use your peep with the mid-sights in place but only at ranges where the required elevation gave a line of aim that cleared those mid-sights.
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
That's an interesting idea but really for a peep sight it is too far forward. Also I have another rifle with the peep at the back of the receiver so want it to mimic that.'m currently thinking about putting iron sights back on a Brno / CZ .22 lr
you can get a replacement peep site blade for the cz barrel sight link below to one i have
JNP peep sight
Bought a CZ 452 FS that I absolutely love shooting, but the factory irons sights gave my 67 year old eyes trouble. I do not want a scope on this rifle...www.24hourcampfire.com
greenshoots
ATB,
Scrummy
Sambarrmann
Active Member
The Sako peep is fine for shooting targets and perhaps wallabies but I wouldn't care to take it when after buffalo. At least it sits firmly on top of the receiver, like the Skinner and an AO peep I keep for my 338WM Finnbear. Though drilling out part of the disk shank and gluing it into the housing makes a good hunting sight of the Lyman 66 on my 375 Winchester, the cross-arm is a point of weakness. My son fell over while hunting with it when about 13 and bent it down towards the receiver. We've straightened it but I will have to add a block under the r/h side before I trust that sight again. Sorry about the picture size.
Sambarrmann
Active Member
Yes Scrummy, that looks like a much better idea.
I used to see Otto Weber at the Bisley AD Pistol Meeting in the 1980s. He used to bring over the very fine Kleenbore cleaning rods and brushes and also some other stuff. I am sorry to hear of his passing. He was a nice man.
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
I believe (and @alberta boy would probably correct me on this) some people have welded a small block or a nubbin under the arm to stop it bending down.
Scrummy
RPA man was also very sad regarding Otto's passing. He said the prices that stuff was being sold at on OK Weber's site was under supply cost.
Hopefully it's going to the right places to be appreciated and not hoarded/scalped.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately , this is a problem with gallows type receiver sights . I've fixed a few over the years . Williams 5D and FP sights have the same set screw as yours that locks the height in when using the quick release feature . It gives no support to the arm though , I've bent a few myself .
One thing to keep in mind when using any of the gallows type sights is to keep the rear arm as low as possible . I've done this by using higher front sights instead of raising the rear sight arm . It makes for a quickly acquired sight picture and the rear sight arm isn't as vulnerable to bending .
There should be enough room on your Lyman to drill and tap a small hole through the sight arm , centered above the bolt . Install a small diameter screw that will filed on the contact ( Bolt ) end . In other words , the top end of the screw will sit flush with the top of the sight arm , you file the bottom to get the required height . It doesn't need to be in contact with the bolt , just a little above works fine . Failing that , as in you don't have enough room , get someone to weld a small stud underneath the arm , centered above the bolt . Any decent MIG/ TIG welder can do it for you in a few minutes . File down to fit and you're good to go . Nice rifle by the way .
AB
scrumbag
Well-Known Member
There ya go
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Yep, quality piece deffo made by Recknagel for NECG but no luck in getting them direct from Ze Germans as it's not listed in their catalogue. Probably an exclusive item at the moment.
Did look into removable globe front (muzzle end) sights for a bit, but was deterred as the only realistic options available were the solution featured on the US Army M24 built by Remington, which involved a front mounted dovetail rail (just visible at the end of the barrel in pic below)
With complimentary rear sight being mounted via a side plate which was drilled and tapped into the long-action Rem700 receiver, for a .308/7.62X51... I'm sure the Soviet/Russian designer Yevgeny Dragunov would have shaken his head in disbelief of such Capitalist dysfunctional-ism in design...
Anyway, the front globe sight bit looks pretty solid, it's quite big though and I suspect it would get caught in foliage so it spent most of it's time in the transit case.
View attachment 204909
The front (back,rear, receiver mounted? uh?!) sight looks even more ungainly, don't think these ever saw combat use. Ryan Cleckner, an Army Ranger who went to SOTIC (US Spec Ops Sniper School) in the early GWOT days said they started the class with 22 trainers, then went on to the M24 with irons, then scopes. Never used the irons again.
View attachment 204910
Originally Lynman supplied both front and rear sights to Remington, but these were new-old stock and once depleted, Remington started buying from RPA of Britain!
Back to my point, the detachable muzzle end iron sight was a cool idea, but to get the right height, you needed a dovetail block of the right height to match the barrel contour, as the actual globe sight is not adjustable for height, windage or elevation. Muzzleloader hunters in the US and Canada still use these quite a bit.
No mate, would be very cool if they did make them to fit a Sako Dovetail. I'd try writing to NECG to see what they say. Sako's probably have just as strong a following in the Southern Hemisphere as anywhere in the world. I'd phone a few small town gunshops or stick a wanted ad up on forums (how I got mine, on here!). Probably find an old Roo shooter who got one with his Sako .222 and let it live in a draw for 40 odd years...
This guy from NZ did a nice build, note that his sight is quite an old model (deffo not made when the action was, which is an A1 Sako)!
Funny, really small world as the RPA guy said he used to live on the road where my Mum has a house! (moving about a lot at the time and was looking at getting it sent there)
Did not buy anything from them in the end, as it was quite a lot of money for the wee globe sight and dovetail mount (like £200 odd!) and it was cheaper to buy from OK Weber in the States (sadly the old gentleman passed and whoever inherited the estate wanted everything sold fast). Did not buy anything in the end as I realised the M24 solution was sub-optimal for my needs.
I have pretty good eyesight (20/20 at last check, no problem with reading last line of the charts) but agree that I would not be using any form of iron sights for low-light/long distance shooting. I think a deer (especially Reds!) about 100-200m away in an open clearing would be a fine so long as their vital zone is visible. I'd be happy to shoot vermin out to the same distances with a nice and frangible lead-core bullet too. Just need to find a calm sunny day, which usually happen when no rifle is in hand!
I'd be quite keen to try some larger inserts in the Sako peep, but fear that dismantling or even drilling it would be blasphemy!
Cool vids, and nice couple of rifles. I do like that rear sight a lot. I was more commenting on Sakos in general and referencing your original comments on their sight options - I’m more of a Mauser man... yes there are certainly heaps of Sakos in use here they are very well respected.
Regarding your front sight, can’t you just properly install a regular front sight ramp far enough back for a mod that doesn’t come back over end of the barrel?
That's the idea!
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Each to their own, I use iron (receiver peep) sights heaps. I’ve probably taken similar number of deer, goats and pigs from 20-150m with them as I have with scopes. I find them a great hunting sight. I like how they’re very low profiler and unobtrusive, rugged and light weight.
Of course if you use a target aperture for hunting it’ll give bad tunnel vision and target acquisition will be poor. That’s why you run a larger or even no aperture (use the housing as a ghost ring) for very fast target acquisition and great peripheral vision
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
Ah sorry i Missed that bit
harrygrey382
Well-Known Member
There’s a sticky on the forums.gunboards sight sub forum Swedish civilian sporting guns that is all about sights that fit the HVA actions. From memory, I think (you’d want to correct this) the side holes suit anything built for a regular 98, so your options are numerous and good. I’d strongly suggest a Lyman, but old redfields are great too - excellent build quality, very user friendly and in keeping with the rifle
Woodsmoke
Well-Known Member
I'll definitely go have a look. Thanks Harry!
welshwarrior
Well-Known Member
This a common issue with type of sight even the heav steel ones used for TR need regular attention. However they are very accurate when paired with the right front sight and a long enough barrel.
With work I probably use/own more of this type of sight than most if not anyone in the country (C1,800 serviceable at last count) the have lasted over 25 years and look to still be going strong.
I like Scrumbags 22 idea and reminds me of my old BRNO model 4 that came with an apperature rear sight, if you can find one the action was the same as the model 2 etc.
Sambarrmann
Active Member
"Unfortunately , this is a problem with gallows type receiver sights . I've fixed a few over the years . Williams 5D and FP sights have the same set screw as yours that locks the height in when using the quick release feature . It gives no support to the arm though , I've bent a few myself .There ya go
One thing to keep in mind when using any of the gallows type sights is to keep the rear arm as low as possible . I've done this by using higher front sights instead of raising the rear sight arm . It makes for a quickly acquired sight picture and the rear sight arm isn't as vulnerable to bending .
There should be enough room on your Lyman to drill and tap a small hole through the sight arm , centered above the bolt . Install a small diameter screw that will filed on the contact ( Bolt ) end . In other words , the top end of the screw will sit flush with the top of the sight arm , you file the bottom to get the required height . It doesn't need to be in contact with the bolt , just a little above works fine . Failing that , as in you don't have enough room , get someone to weld a small stud underneath the arm , centered above the bolt . Any decent MIG/ TIG welder can do it for you in a few minutes . File down to fit and you're good to go . Nice rifle by the way .
AB"
Is that just your turn of phrase, AB, or have sights actually been sold using that descriptor? If so, I'm not sure the marketing would fly so well this side of Tombstone (notwithstanding that the citizens of San Diego once hanged a man on suspicion of stealing a row-boat).
But since you mention it, perhaps I could add a diagonal brace up from the set screw, and make it look like a proper gibbet. Not perfect, I know, but the shortness of the cross-arm makes support on the r/h side a PITA.
Your idea of a set screw out there, poised just above the breechblock could be OK, though, because the arm might spring back from pressure that only took it a few thou.
Thanks, it is a nice rifle and my gunsmith mate complimented me on its condition recently, considering its 40-odd years. It doesn't get out much but is just the shot for pigs in the lignum.
alberta boy
Well-Known Member
Lol . No , the phrase isn't my invention , it's how there referred to here . You don't have much choice when it comes to receiver sights on your 94 . If it was an angle eject model , you'd have other options like a Skinner rear sight . They will fit your rifle , but you'd have to have two holes drilled and tapped in your receiver . Check out Skinner Sights , I have them on a few rifles , great sights . I use Marlins for a number of reasons , one being the sight is mounted directly to the top of the receiver , no arm to worry about .
You describe exactly what happens when you have a set screw installed with minimum clearance . The arm does spring back , or , at worst , only bends a few thou . At the ranges these rifles are usually used at , it would be hard to notice . Food for thought .
AB
You describe exactly what happens when you have a set screw installed with minimum clearance . The arm does spring back , or , at worst , only bends a few thou . At the ranges these rifles are usually used at , it would be hard to notice . Food for thought .
AB
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