Nv of thermal scope??

[Farmergiles87]

After some advice please from all you fellow shooters,
I'm concidering going from nv to thermal,
I have reluctantly sold my gen 3 starlight archer as of comments I've heard regarding starlight but can't make up my mind,
I've been trying to find as much info as possible regarding thermal scopes, I normally shoot foxes between 100-250 yards, which was easy with the nv unit I had, will I be able to do this with thermal, I'm toying with either a pvs14 with white phosphor tube, or thermal scope, alot of people recommend the thermion xm50 for this, as a greater magnification on base mag, I've been looking at the iray lt35, looks a good unit and also the Rico42, can't stretch to the 50,!!
Will be going in my 22250, I'm using a axion 38lrf for spotting, but I just can't make up my mind to take the gamble and go with a thermal scope,
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure this has been asked many times,
Thankyou

 

[woody]

Personally I would stick with NV, I know exactly what I'm shooting at, sex it, identify foliage in front of target etc, I use thermal for spotting, that's my personal view on it.

 

[Farmergiles87]

Just been reading a post on here regarding nv,
If you had the choice, knowing that the tubed nv units ie archer/pvs are fantastic but at a big cost or the cheaper end pard 007a, which alot of people have sold the higher end gear to buy these, can see to 300yards what would you buy, knowing that in a few months something else will be released, that could be better,,,,
Think I'm going back to the lamp!!!!

 

[User00048]

As you use a spotter, you know after time you learn exactly what an animal is not just by shape but also by the type of walk, gate of walk, overall height, height of legs, etc etc. Becomes easier to tell foxes, badgers and cats apart at further and further distances. All it takes is time and if you are out week in and week out, day in and day out, it becomes second nature.

And deer are always obviously deer, even easy to tell species apart if used for day shooting. Size is the biggest factor, tale vs no tale etc etc. Infact even sex, with fallow the penile sheef is quite obvious.

It's all very simple to identify, you know exactly what you are shooting.

Easy to see boundaries and a plus that nobody ever seems to mention is the fact that when using a thermal scope, you will always be aware of any of heat in your environment... I doubt all walkers have been spotted by lamp, you get all sorts in the thermal... I've seen people collecting golf balls on a course at 12am with no light...no far up behind a fox spotted..

Lamp and nv have big draw backs as they are weather dependant completely. Bit of cold air, misty, fog, frosty air can also cut your viewing range in half or infact make it completely impossible to use. Whereas I have never yet been in weather that makes thermal completely useless..grainier yes but not unusable. Only place I have nv is on the 22 because its cheap and the range is suitable in most cases.

I use an xp50 to identify and a pulsar xm38 to shoot with on the 243. However if you are looking at xq50 or xm50 pulsar scope money, take a look at the IRAY Rico Rl42 model..it will cost less.... 2100meter detection range, 4 to 16 x mag all usable, less pixelated in magnification ranges than pulsar and you will find it clearer than any current Pulsar scope due to the mag starting point and detection range.... yes it's box shaped and not scope tube type like a thermion.. but do you want better performance or better looks? Steer clear of ATN, well overpriced and I have only experienced issues with any of their products.

Just my opinion but it's turning many heads and if I was replace my xm38 model scope ..it would be with that.

 

[User00048]

So far with my xm38 pulsar thermion mk1, I have shot foxes out to 270 yards when used in conjunction with a higher end spotter. So I would say anything you use of that spec or higher, will be good enough for your needs.

 

[The Singing Stalker]

I would have kept the archer, if there was nothing wrong with it. They can be repaired and not through Starlight.
that being said, I use a longbow, which is off for repair at the moment, I am using a pard007 in the mean time.
so nv wise, my opinion.
weight wise pard really light, archer heavy.
vision wise, scanning I think the tube wins out by a mile, I find the pard is a blur as you scan, basically because it is a tv screen I suppose, the only way to overcome that would be to increase the refresh rate I suppose.
pricewise, pard wins out but image isn’t a good. Now if you are shooting foxes out to 250 yards then no issues. If you are shooting them at 25 yards then more of a problem. Well it is for me as you gotta find the sod.

Thermal, I haven’t moved over to it yet? I do have a thermal spotter though. All the rifle scopes I looked through so far I wasn’t happy with the clarity of the image, this was pre COVID, I may just be being finicky but there I wasn’t happy. The other thing that would concern me is, will you see a branch in the way or an electric fence? I don’t with the spotter. Again I haven’t hunted with thermal so others can answer that.
and lastly, the price. They are a lot of money. Now interestingly following some conversations on forums there should be a few new thermals launching this year so it will be interesting to see what they do to the overall price of thermals and what improvements if any come about. Then if I had a spare £4K in my pocket I would consider one.

 

[Clive Ward]

After some advice please from all you fellow shooters,
I'm concidering going from nv to thermal,
I have reluctantly sold my gen 3 starlight archer as of comments I've heard regarding starlight but can't make up my mind,
I've been trying to find as much info as possible regarding thermal scopes, I normally shoot foxes between 100-250 yards, which was easy with the nv unit I had, will I be able to do this with thermal, I'm toying with either a pvs14 with white phosphor tube, or thermal scope, alot of people recommend the thermion xm50 for this, as a greater magnification on base mag, I've been looking at the iray lt35, looks a good unit and also the Rico42, can't stretch to the 50,!!
Will be going in my 22250, I'm using a axion 38lrf for spotting, but I just can't make up my mind to take the gamble and go with a thermal scope,
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I'm sure this has been asked many times,
Thankyou

I've been using a thermal rifle scope for pretty much all of my night shooting for getting on for 7 years now. But in those early stages I did have to completely bypass the initial consumer 'offerings' and go for something hellishly expensive to get 'acceptable' performance. It's been a bit of a journey.

In that time for foxing, I've gone from a GSCI 75mm 640 in the good old days, swiftly followed by one of our excellent WT1 units (when we knew that the 75mm / 17 micron shutterless combo was really a minimum for long range foxing and not shooting at 'blobs', to finally reach the pinnacle that is the T-Ceptor PRO 55mm with 12 micron shutterless, high sensitivity sensor with all the latest image processing.

I also had a smaller 50mm WT1 on the .22 LR and that has been replaced with a Pard SA45 LRF. That is now on a QR mount with the zero for the .22LR, .17HMR and .22 Hornet. For shorter range work it's very versatile and is small enough to be used as a spotter.

At the very top end of what's available these days, there is no real downside on the close range image, compared to tubed or digital NV. You can see more than enough with any of them to get the job done. What we do find is the long range image is better. Not necessarily more detailed but the target is much better defined.

Some people like to be 75% sure of their target and fill the remaining 25% in with hope and judgement based on movement. I personally want to be 100% sure by visual ID only. If it doesn't immediately look like a fox...then it isn't. No amount of squinting and looking will make it better and that's when mistakes are made and shortcomings of gear materialise. That's why you will get some quite different opinions on the range capability of the same rifle scope.

In terms of use, I find thermal much more efficient than NV. There is no fiddling about, the scopes are self contained and there is no illuminator to mess about with. Just turn it on at the start of the session, look through it and shoot things, then turn it off at home time.

A 50mm 17 micron will do 200 yards sensibly at the top end, as will a 35mm 12 micron. The 42mm 12 micron will do more. The 55mm 12 micron will do even more again, at 400 yards.

The analogy is that would you buy a car that had an absolute top speed of 70mph on the flat?


Cheers





Clive